Ray Price Bear Family Cd set - mssing vocals?

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 5 Sep 2000 2:32 pm

I received an email from someone who asked me to check my copy of CD #5 for tracks 21 (Heartaches By The Number) and 24 (The Same Old Me) for missing harmony vocals. Neither of us has the harmony vocals on our sets. He has contacted Bear about this but not received a reply yet. Any comments? I just boxed up my entire LP set of Ray Price and sold it so I can't compare to the records but I do recall strong harmony vocals on these songs. These are not listed as outtakes or later releases so they should mirror the originals. This person also indicated that there were other missing things, and he only noticed them on CD#5. I did find out that, for example, there is harmony on the other songs such as track 14, Invitation to the Blues, so they are not all missing harmony. Anybody else notice this? Are your copies the same?

Greg

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 5 Sep 2000 3:34 pm

One thing for sure, these two songs (Heartaches by the Number & The Same Two Lips) had harmony on the original record. I have the original Columbia album (on tape), and Ray's own voice is unmistakenly present singing harmony. Ray usually sang his own harmony on the early records, but some songs, such as "City Lights" had no harmony part. On "Crazy Arms", he's singing so high, you'd swear it was Webb Pierce doing the harmony! These old songs were probably recut several times, though, and there may be differences in later releases.

A interesting little "sidelight"...

Many many years ago, I worked with bass and rhythm player named Eddie Wilson, who has since passed on. Anyhow, he was quite a good harmony singer, and Ray Price heard him singing (at an old "package" show) one evening, and offered Eddie a job in his band. He asked Eddie if he thought he could sing harmony to all of his stuff, and Eddie told him, point blank "I can sing better harmony than the guy on the record." Ray frowned and said "Well, I do all my own harmony parts on the records." Eddie just shook his head and said "That doesn't change what I just just told you!"

Needless to say...he didn't get the job! [This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 05 September 2000 at 04:48 PM.]

Andy Alford · Post by **Andy Alford** » 6 Sep 2000 3:19 am

Van Howard sang harmony with Ray Price in the early years.You can see him doing this on the Grand Ole Opry tv shows that were recorded in the 1950s.

streifel · Post by **streifel** » 6 Sep 2000 6:30 am

Thanks for raising Greg. There are a few tunes on the Ray Price Box Set that are missing harmony vocals, including Heartaches By the Number, and The Same Ole Me. They seem to missing on some tunes between #13 and #26 on CD 5, and #14 and #15 on CD 6, although not certain on all tunes. I suspect sloppy work by Bear Family. Does anyone else have a flawed set?

Tele · Post by **Tele** » 6 Sep 2000 1:41 pm

WOW, Folks, though I didn't own Bear Family I don't want to hear something like "sloppy work" when talking about them.
I guess Bear Family is the best thing Germany did for Country music if not the best thing that Germans ever did

No serious, usually the Bear releases are superb. Are you folks sure that Ray sang his own harmony vocals?? I mean some parts are really high and I really think that is was Van Howard doing harmony. I have a CD full of live radio recordings form the 1950s and there's a tune called "Peace in the Valley" where Ray struggles to cover the high notes.
Why should they have done overdubs when a second singer of Vans caliber could sing the other parts?

Andy

------------------
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[This message was edited by Tele on 08 September 2000 at 12:59 PM.]

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 6 Sep 2000 2:11 pm

Do you really think Ray would lie about something like that?

Andy Alford · Post by **Andy Alford** » 7 Sep 2000 3:37 am

All I can say Van Howard sang harmony with Ray Price.

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 7 Sep 2000 4:00 am

It is clearly Ray's voice on harmony vocals on the 1st 6 CD's of the 10 CD set. Since I already sold my RP LP's, I dig out the 45's and they DO have the harmony.

Greg

streifel · Post by **streifel** » 7 Sep 2000 6:27 am

Just to clarify. There is no harmony at all on some of the tracks in Ray Price's Box Set, when we know for certain there was beautiful harmony on original tunes like Heartaches by the Number, and The Same Ole Me (others are missing harmony tracks as well). They are clearly the original tapes but the harmony is simply missing. This only appears to have happened on a few tunes on 2 of the 10 CDs (CD 5 and CD 6), the rest seem perfect. Bear Family has done great great work and they should be congratulated--I have bought several sets. However something went amiss here and it is disappointing not to have the complete versions of some of these wonderful recordings. I have tried to contact Bear Family and hope this can be corrected.

Best regards,

Shane Streifel

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 9 Sep 2000 1:52 pm

I have listened to a few more of the CD's, numbers 7 and 8. On Maiden's Prayer, Jimmy Day was real prevalent in the backup on the original. Most of his steel was completely eliminated in this mix although everything else sounds identical with the fiddle playing straight throuh where Jimmy Day used to be. This is still a great set and the book that comes with it is 80 pages of awesome photos and stories, some so good, I read them twice. I would have preferred that they just take the final tape mix that was cut to vinyl and put that on the CD or maybe just copy a mint vinyl onto CD. This would have ruled out using stereo and would have limited the dynamic range of the final product BUT who could be good enough to improve the listenability of the original mixes?

Greg

streifel · Post by **streifel** » 13 Sep 2000 5:29 am

Bear Family has confirmed that some harmony vocals are missing in the Box Set. They said they will check with their management and let me know further. I'll keep you posted.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 14 Sep 2000 6:21 pm

Greg,

Congratulations! You have recogized an often "hidden", or misunderstood problem. People who didn't "grow up with these sounds" seldom appreciate them.

"Stereo" is no substitute for a good mix. But...just try telling that to a modern producer, sound man, or engineer!

Before "stereo", there was "Seeburg"!

Bill Crook · Post by **Bill Crook** » 16 Sep 2000 2:46 am

This "Missin' Parts" problem isn't just with the above mentioned CD set....

I have purchased several "Reissue" sets, only to find that they are NOT "reissued" sets but "Re-made" sets. Nowhere near the original cuts that we heard and are familure(sp?) with. It's a shame that the people running the music industry don't have a clue as to what a "re-issue" should be. They are so far removed from the real world that they cain't see and/or remember what the "original" sounded like. Too bad that most of them are so da#$% young that they haven't even heard or know of the original material.

But, thats life.... I guess we must move on. Boy, do I miss the better stuff tho.

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 16 Sep 2000 6:21 am