traditional artists going pop?????

tim duvall · Post by **tim duvall** » 11 Apr 2000 9:06 am

I heard the Judd's new song on the radio yesterday. It sounded like some song Shania would release. You know country music is on the decline when the former icons of country music (ie. judds) don't even release country music anymore.

Mark Frederick · Post by **Mark Frederick** » 11 Apr 2000 11:05 am

Speaking for myself, I've never for a nano-second thought of the Judds as country music icons. Bubble-gum country icons possibly, but real-deal country icons, nope, don't hardly think so.

Mark

Dis kiss......dis kiss...... awww, sing it loud, son!!!

Marty Holmes · Post by **Marty Holmes** » 12 Apr 2000 2:20 pm

I don't know Tim.I am pretty Disaappointed in todays so called COUNTRY Music .It just doesnt sound like it did 10,15,or 20 years ago.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 13 Apr 2000 3:40 am

I've never considered the Judds as "icons of country music". They were like most of the recent artists, they put out a country song for their debut and then there wasn't much country after that.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 13 Apr 2000 8:29 am

Tim,
I just heard it also and I liked it! Sure hope they can make a come back.
Sonny Garrish played on all those great #1's!
Guess not being country matter's more than hearing the steel.
Theresa

Hook Moore · Post by **Hook Moore** » 13 Apr 2000 8:58 am

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 13 Apr 2000 9:25 am

Mark,

You said, "Speaking for myself, I've never for a nano-second thought of the Judds as country music icons. Bubble-gum country icons possibly, but real-deal country icons, nope, don't hardly think so."

Gotta agree with ya 100% here. I see no difference between them and Shania, Garth, Faith, Martina ad nauseum. Never have.

For those who like the NCS, they will most assuredly dissagree, but for those of us who love real traditional "country music", The Judds never were a part of this blessed circle that the likes of the truly greats created.

Such as George Jones, Ray Price, Merle Haggard, Ernest Tubb, Hank Williams, Marty Robbins, Alan Jackson, Jeannie Sealy, Connie Smith, Anita Carter, etc, etc created. IMHO. The Judds were nothing but R & R disguised as "country". Again my opinion.

I know, I know, "if the steel doesn't find its way into the new country (which is nothing but R & R) it will die." I could not agree more. Because there 'ain't nothing else being recorded just about. So it has to join other music genre to be heard.

But that gets away from the point. And that is, are/were the Judds country? I say NO. Never were!

I could respect them and wish them well a lot more if they just came right out and said it, "We hate traditional country music. We just love R & R. So that is what we do!!!"

God bless,

carl

Paul Crawford · Post by **Paul Crawford** » 13 Apr 2000 9:31 am

Theresa: For those who are traditional country music fans, you are correct, being country is more important. Being a fan of steel guitar music and traditional country music, even while sharing a strong common bond, is not necessarily the same thing, nor are they mutually exclusive.

I just LOVE it when I'm tuned in to a jazz station and they play the ever so rare steel guitar cut. I also love it when I hear great steel guitar when tuned in to a country station. However, notice in neither case was I able to tune into a "steel guitar" station, (that's my CD collection.) I'd be VERY happy to hear steel guitar when I tuned into my pop station, but I expect to have to tune to my pop station to be able to hear it.

To me, it's all about truth in advertising and fullfilling your fans expectations.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 13 Apr 2000 10:44 am

Paul,
Truth in advertising, hmmmmm? I've said we need to change the labeling system recently.
It seems to be a real issue on this steel forum.
I assure you if any steel player got a call to work for the Judd's or whoever,they wouldn't turn it down. No matter what type of so called country music they think it is.
Traditional is the history,we love and acknowledge it and learn from it. Like life itself.
But to put down what is now and present is dissing it.
If you want young player's to be inspired and want to play steel. I hear no incouragement. Theresa
Steel forum?

Mark Frederick · Post by **Mark Frederick** » 13 Apr 2000 11:57 am

Theresa:
What? If I'm putting down this bubble-gum country stuff, I'm "dissing" traditional country music? Au contraire, if I'm putting down bubble-gum country, all I'm dissing is the aforementioned bubble-gum country. It's that simple. And you say "if any steel player got a call to work for the Judds or whoever, they wouldn't turn it down." Well, speaking for this steel player,
there is only one, count 'em, one, reason this steel player would climb on the bandstand with the Judds - MONEY, BIG MONEY. Buckets full of money. I'd have to make BIG
money 'cause anti- nausea medicine ain't all that cheap anymore.

Mark

Jimmy's got a girl friend......Jimmy's got a
girl friend...... awwww, sing it son!!!!

Paul Crawford · Post by **Paul Crawford** » 13 Apr 2000 12:38 pm

Theresa: I'm certainly not trying to make a value judgement on any type of music, except what I dearly call Traditional Country. I totally agree any musician that had an opportunity to work with a professional act like the Judd's would/should jump at the change. But in that, we are talking, as you said in your post, "the Steel Forum."

This particular section is Country Music. My general opinions of music of all types may or may not be different, but for my love of Traditional Country they are well focused. When says, "Hey, I'm true Country!", I have an expectation of what I'm going to hear. I like to hear new variations on the theme and fresh approaches to time honored fomula, but it is still very recognizable to me. My objection, as a Country Music fan, is to the vast majority of the producers and station managers feeding me horse radish and calling it sweet potatoes. I can still be upset with that and like horse radish on other days, don't you think?

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 13 Apr 2000 1:49 pm

Paul,
I'm sure we agree more than disagree with traditional country music. You either move ahead or stay behind. It's the cold hard truth. Theresa

erik · Post by **erik** » 13 Apr 2000 2:56 pm

I have mentioned this tune in the Sonny Garrish thread but agian, the song Why Not Me is very country in -my- book. And i really love the steel playing in it.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 13 Apr 2000 3:44 pm

erik,
Then we agree I love Sonny's playing, keep moving on! Theresa

Mark Frederick · Post by **Mark Frederick** » 13 Apr 2000 4:41 pm

Carl:
Well put, sir, very well put. May the good Lord bless you too.

Mark

Dis kiss......dis kiss...... awwww, sing that COUNTRY song, son!! Sing it!!!

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 13 Apr 2000 6:05 pm

Carl,
I could respect them and wish them well alot more if they came out and said it, "We hate traditional country music,we just love R&R, so that is what we do!"
Sorry Sonny! Theresa

Mark Frederick · Post by **Mark Frederick** » 13 Apr 2000 7:02 pm

Well, one more thought and I'm through for the day. If Nashville was crankin' out more tunes like Alan Jackson's 'I Don't Even Know Your Name' (think that's the name of it) where Paul was allowed to stretch out some and Jackson's 'Farewell Party', where Paul 'said' everything there was to say, I'd be living in the back room of a record (can I still say record?) store, waiting for the next day's delivery. BUT, as long as it's as it is now, where they take a pop/rock tune, let the steel player do a coupla chimes and MAYBE slide from a 1 to a 4 a coupla times and then call it country, I ain't gonna go broke buying "country" records, oops, sorry, CDs.

Mark

Dis kiss......dis kiss...... man, I'm sounding good tonight (had a request for this fine COUNTRY tune too, which makes it even better).

Mark Frederick · Post by **Mark Frederick** » 13 Apr 2000 8:07 pm

One more last thought. To quote the great G. Gordon Liddy, "Calling a horse a cow does not make a horse a cow." Likewise, calling Garth, Shania, Faith et al country does not make Garth, Shania, Faith et al country.

Mark

Gonna forego my usual rendition of 'Dis Kiss'. I'm getting a little hoarse.

tim duvall · Post by **tim duvall** » 14 Apr 2000 5:26 am

Well I think that we will all agree that modern day musicians are out to make money. No harm in that, aren't we all. I think that a majority of the reason that we are hearing this "new country" on the radio is the listens fault. If people would stop voting these songs #1, then the artists would either have to go strictly pop or go back to "original" country music or not make those big bucks. But as long as their songs are hitting the charts and making the money, why would they change. I mean let's face it, shania has made it big in both worlds. Gotta respect her for her hard work but when she hits the top of the charts in country radio, why wouldn't she still be played when that is what people want to hear. I guess we can hope for what has happened in the archery world. The bows have become so modern that archers are starting to go back to the traditional recurves.

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 14 Apr 2000 6:19 am

It all boils down to taste. I myself prefer pure Country music,however If some of the new stuff is good I give it credit as such. However I would rather listen to What I truly enjoy,And that is what all should do.There is room for country to expand,without eliminating tradition.IMHO

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CJC

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 14 Apr 2000 8:15 am

Trying for some new action from the trad crowd, I just got this link for a Bakersfield buddy. Not much use to me with my puny Aussie dollars..but seems pretty cool. Plus there's some info onsite as well.

http://www.purecountrymusic.com/

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Ray Jenkins · Post by **Ray Jenkins** » 14 Apr 2000 9:01 am

Theresa;We all want the young steel players to be inspired and continue to play steel.Let them play any kind of music they wish,if they can find a job in some other music field.So called Country now days,jobs are limited.
In the late 50's thru 1975 there were so many night clubs,honkey tonks, bars, resturants,service clubs,the list went on and on.We were working six nights a week,couldnt hardly ever get a night off,no one to replace us,everybody was working.The places were always crowded,dance floors were full(not line dancers either real dancers).The music was traditional Country,western swing,waltzes polkas,very danceable music.Come 1975 music changed,honkey tonks decreased along with many other businesses.People didn't want to dance to this new draggy screaming oh baby oh baby oh stuff.We started loosing our jobs simply because the masses started staying home.With not many places to play that leaves fewer places to play.All because of the deteriation of our beloved real country music.Thats my opinion and I'm sticking to it.You kids don't ever give up. Ray

Scott Hiestand · Post by **Scott Hiestand** » 14 Apr 2000 10:36 am

My two cents:

Regarding the endless "old" country vs. "new" country question:

Not only would I say that Shania, Faith, Garth, etc. are not true "country" artists, but futhermore I will go out on a limb and say this is fact and not just another opinion. Everyone has their tastes as to what types of music they like, but this does not make the "newer" style, even if it is preferred by some (most?), qualify as "country". Artists like George Jones, Merle Haggard, Hank Williams, Buck Owens, etc. are either still recording great country material or at least are still being listened to 40+ years later. They are LEGENDS who helped form the genre. And, for the most part, the legends who are still recording have not wavered much, if at all, from that genre (for example, witness George Jones' "Choices"), despite enormous momentum to do so.

Does anyone honestly think people will be listening to Shania Twain or Faith Hill once gravity begins to take it's toll? Or how about Brian White or Collin Raye? Forget it!!.

I love playing steel, but I love traditional country music more, and would go back to strumming my six-string in a heartbeat if given the choice between playing "new" country on the steel or "old" country on the guitar.

Obviously if money is a prime motivator for a steel player then sure, record with Shania or whoever. Guys like Paul Franklin, Bruce Bouton, etc. are great players and this is not meant to take anything away from them - actually it's a credit to them that they can be so inspiring to all us "amateurs" despite the format. But they make their livings playing steel and right now, like it or not, this is what's selling.

I just wish they'd stop calling it "country"!

Scott H.

Zumsteeler · Post by **Zumsteeler** » 14 Apr 2000 1:44 pm

After many times reading topics on country music and the current country music, it seems to me that all of us might accept the new country a little more if they'd mix in a little more traditional country in the radio programming. I like some of the new country, but it's hard to find radio stations that will play both. With most stations in large markets, they will play only the new stuff. Just last night, I saw a TV commercial advertising one of Nashville's major country stations. It advertised itself as being "new country", and even has on the street interviews with listeners saying they listen to this station because they don't play "the old twangy country". Of coarse all the people they interviewed were very young. I want a station that will play it all, new and old. Fortunately, in Nashville, we have WSM-AM, and they do play a mix of new and old. The industry goes on numbers, how many records sold, that is the bottom line, but the people that are buying the records are all very young people who are not loyal to the artist like traditional country fans. The way the industry works now is good for short term, but I wonder where these artist will be in 30 years. It seems to me the smart thing would be to go for the smaller, more loyal market and have the longevity. Unfortunatly our society is now one of a right now, hurry up, throw away attitude. We are all aware that it is about money and change, but to real country music fans, the ones who will still be buying country music 30 years from now, it is all about what they hear in the music. This is the one thing that the current record exects have not figured out. I had a conversation with a promoninent artist manager the other day, and he told me that he had been to a music row meeting with many of the top exects in the business. The topic of the meeting was the decline of country music popularity and sales. He told me that they all got together to try to figure out what is wrong and after several hours, not one person could figure out what was wrong, much less how to fix it. Country fans will allow a mix of rock/pop in the market to a certain extent, but the real loyal fans will only take so much then they lock down and that is when the tide turns. I have been in Nashville for 33 years and have seen this with my own eyes before. Paul Franklin said in another thread that he had not done any traditional records this year and had not seen a trend to go that way yet. I think he is right, but the key word here is YET. Be patient folks, it will get back to basics, it always does.

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Johnny Cox
Zumsteel

Pat Jenkins · Post by **Pat Jenkins** » 14 Apr 2000 3:04 pm

I'm an afternoon drive announcer on a hot new country station...no say in what I play...listeners have no say in what they listen to...but they still buy what they hear...Merle could still sell, Ray could still sell...if they could be heard on a regular basis...oh, by the way...we make money here...excellent ratings...hnc only...one more thing, this music is not bad...I love meat loaf, mashed taters and gravy, corn on the cob and green beans, but three times a day, seven days a week, I think I'd soon grow tired...the listeners in our nation have ...sales turning down...listeners down also...just my thoughts...Pat