How to sell "Classic Country"

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 19 Apr 2000 1:06 pm

I touched on some of this in another post, but I'd like to share a few more ideas. A few people here keep reiterating "classic country just doesn't sell". Maybe I'm missing something here, but haven't I read many times right here about the German outfit (Bear Family?) that is selling re-issues of classic country stuff? Why are they, of all people, doing this? I believe the answer is "it's selling!" Let's face it, they aren't doing it out of mere reverence!

I mentioned in that other post that cost has something to do with why the classic stuff doesn't sell as well. The older crowd that likes this stuff doesn't want to pay $15 for a CD. Let me give you a "crude analogy", and bear with me (no pun intended) for a while.

Let's consider the "classic" stuff a Pentium 450, and then say that this new country stuff (Garth, Shania, et al) is a Pentium 800. Now you can't expect the "450" to cost as much as the "800". But thats exactly what's happening in country music now. They're charging us big money for the little star's recordings. Maybe the big star's stuff should cost more money. After all, they have to have all the "bells and whistles" (half-million dollar videos) to go along with the CD. Also the big stars need BIG MONEY. Gene Watson would probably be happy with $200 in royalties a day...but that much probably wouldn't keep Shania in makeup, or Garth in tailored clothes.

I honestly think that if all they did was re-release the old stuff on CDs, and charge say $5.00 apiece, that they would sell a lot of them. No, not millions, but certainly a few thousands of each. And their cost would be minimal...no big videos to produce, no commercials, no studio musicians to pay, no marketing gurus to employ, no new artwork, no fancy advertising, ect..

Many people have said that CDs are vastly overpriced, that's not news to anyone! No wonder the recording companies are scared to death about MP3, CD burners, and the like. The public deserves a decent product for a decent price. They don't deserve to be screwed by the big companies for the sake of paying someone behind the scenes hundreds of thousands, or maybe millions of dollars a year.

I was in a computer store the other day, and I saw old computer games on CDs...a pack of 10 for $10.00! Computer CDs weren't even around when these games were developed. But they are...being re-released, and I know they are making money on them! Is it going to take someone like Ron Popiel to do the same thing with music? [This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 19 April 2000 at 02:09 PM.]

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 19 Apr 2000 4:14 pm

I see what you're getting at, but there's a flaw in your analogy. I would expect a Pentium 800 to offer some "performance advantage" over the 450. I don't see where there's any performance or technological advantage of the new country over classic country. (Quite the opposite)

The big names make the big money on VOLUME not on unit pricing or a separate royalty scale.

I don't disagree that CD's are too high priced in general. I'm expecting them out last me, so I'm willing to pay more even if the cost less to produce. The record companies know this. It's called "value pricing".

Janice Brooks · Post by **Janice Brooks** » 19 Apr 2000 4:22 pm

Bear family has some great material but dispite the price some artests are geting ripped off (Charlie Louvin).

Most of the cheep releases are overstock or on unknown labels where who knows who's getting royelties.

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Janice "Busgal" Brooks
ICQ 44729047

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 19 Apr 2000 5:14 pm

One of the points I was trying to make is that I would buy CDs of the records I already have...if the price was low. But at $15 a pop, I'm willing to put up with my noisy old records.

Oh well, even if they did re-release them on CD, they'd probably screw them up by changing the mix...Murphy's Law, you know.

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 19 Apr 2000 5:38 pm

Donny,
Most of the reissue labels are from Europe, you know Britain, Germany, France etc.
That tends to bump up the price a little when you go to by this stuff on CD.
By the way, the Australian dollar is so weak at the moment, that some US import CD's are retailing at $38 Australian.

So I know what you are saying about price. the Bear Family stuff costs us an arm and a leg 'down here'.
But bear in mind what you guys are paying, is not totally reflective of what the company is making, once you convert those dollars and overseas shipping etc.

The problem with vintage country is that it's a side market. And yes it's a good one.
There are a lot of smaller labels that are issuing old bluegrass, country boogie, rockabilly and Western Swing. I don't think any of them expect to be made rich from it, but they do expect a profit.

The thing is modern country is just that, it's charting and available, it has a totally different sound. Even if older material is wonderfully packaged,compiled and sonically restored, to some people it's going to be that old 'Oakie' or hillbilly music.
Older labels like RCA and Capitol have remained annoying coy and totally lack respect regarding a lot of their older artists, having said that, perhaps they don't want to be reissue labels, but rather modern ongoing labels. which is why some of them lease out recordings to other labels.
Still a label like Capitol Records has no trouble in reissuing 20 zillion Beach Boys CD's while Bobby Austin and many others have their material sitting in Capitol's vaults.

The best we can do is buy what we want, and hope to generate sales.
I'm buying those buck Owens reissues when they come out.

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Smiley Roberts · Post by **Smiley Roberts** » 19 Apr 2000 9:10 pm

One more thought...where else ya gonna get it? If'n ya want it bad enuff,you'll pay fer it. I was fortunate. I started my record collection early,being a deejay in the mid '50's. That does have it's advantages.(free records,for one thing.)
BTW Jason,it's "Okie",not "Oakie". Either way,it's a "pejorative" term.Just ask Les Campbell

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P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 20 Apr 2000 2:18 am

Those Bear Family CDs are great, but they sure aren't cheap. Most of the single discs go for about 19 bucks. The Box sets are an arm and a leg too. (it's all worth it though...)

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 21 Apr 2000 4:45 am

Ok Smiley, Cut out the perjoritive crap,Be a nice po***ck.

PH#1 How about all the 5.95 Tapes and 7.95 CD's in the truckstops.Old stuff but good and cheap and they got everybody (but me).

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CJC

[This message was edited by Joe Casey on 21 April 2000 at 05:51 AM.]

Ron Page · Post by **Ron Page** » 21 Apr 2000 11:02 am

Count me in on buying CD's of my current records. I've bought several. I'd even pay full price for many of them. You might even find some at the 2nd hand sites (Secondspin.com is one I've used). You won't find any of the Hag originals on the used rack. But there's a load of Garth's stuff. What does that say?

I'd probably pay 2x for a CD of Hag's Rainbow Stew.

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HagFan

The Dobro Man · Post by **The Dobro Man** » 21 Apr 2000 8:17 pm

It's too bad that the Music Artists do get ripped off so badly. Unless an artists sells records by the Millions, he/she seldom gets any royalties, and in many cases, technically owes the Record Company money for studio time, production time, advertising and promotion, distribution, etc.

I talked to Billy Garland and Hank Garland both on the phone. They got in touch with me when they found the web page I have on Hank Garland. Hank's Brother told me that Hank did not recieve any Royalities from the sales of his Recordings, even though His CDs are sold on every major Internet CD Sales Site, and in all the Major CD Retail Chains. Can you imagine that, no Royalities, none at all.

Well Imagine this. I do Guitar instrumentals, I don't have a record contract but instead have my guitar instrumentals on the www.mp3.com web site for free listen and download and In just 6 months I have earned a total of $907.00 on songs I recorded at home, doing all the parts myself. This has come from royalties that MP3 com is paying. This is the first money I have ever made from recording I have made in my life time. When I went the traditional marketing route, putting my songs out on physical Records, and trying to sell them in Retail Music Stores, I ended up making no money at all from my songs, and my recordings.

There was one artist on MP3 com, in the eletronic Genre that earned $4,500.00 in one month from Royalities paid by MP3 com. The Electronic Genre has many more visitors on MP3 com than does the Country Music Genre. Computer Nerds and Geeks are big time on the Internet site and they love the Computer Genreated Electronic Music.

Now I tell this is to show that A big name guitarist, one of the All time Great Country and Jazz Guitarists, Hank Garland, gets no Royalties from the sale of his CDs which are marketed on Major Record Labels, in all the Major Retail CD outlets in the United States, and me, an unknown Guitarists, who is only listend to and downloaded on an mp3 web site, gets a fair amount of money for his Guitar Playing. This show how the internet is changing things.

In my opinion a Counry Singer and Song writer is better to market his music through the MP3 web sites, and take a Record Contract if someone should offer him/her one, but don't let someone else own the rights to your recordings. Maintain control of the rights for your Songs and your Performance.

It seems to me that about 90 percent of those who sign with major labels never make money from their Recordings, only the Record Companies make the money. Of course it is different if you sell recordings in the millions, but I bet less than 10 percent of all those who have Record Contracts sell records in the millions, so all they get out of their Records is publicity, and the ability to book better jobs.

If you publish you own material, and maintain the rights to the material, I think you are better off than trying to go the Record Company Route.

It sure is a shame that the great talent of the music world often gets nothing, no royalties at all, from their recorded music.

Lee

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 21 Apr 2000 9:13 pm

Wait a second, Joe. I recently bought a Charley Pride CD thinking I was gonna get some Lloyd Green steel, but instead it sounded to me like a new remake with different players. That can't help the issue.

I'm sorry, it was a tape. Nonetheless, it was all the greatest hits but not the ORIGINAL recordings.[This message was edited by Marty Pollard on 21 April 2000 at 10:17 PM.]

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 21 Apr 2000 11:06 pm

Oh yeah 'Okie'..hehe.
I used to work with a guy who used to say 'you listening to that hillbilly spoon playing s**t?.

Speaking of re-recordings this is an interesting point.
What about the pickers on the originals?
When there are re-recordings the original band or session dudes who cut the tune, well they get squat.
That's not so bad when you think that they went into these sessions expecting nothing other than a good name with the producer and other pickers if they do what is wanted or add some 'texture and flavor'. If they get a good rep. well they get more work, at least that's part of it.
But at least when you heard the originals you could say, of that Garland solo really makes it, or check that 'Remmington Ride' etc.
Remakes even steal that. For the artist, well it might be a chance for them to earn some $$$ off their old songs as some el cheapo label might have the rights to their early material. Not unlike some of Merle Haggard's early Tally material from 1962-64 which gets dumped out on little tape and Cd labels with his name, but you can bet he gets nothing, or next to nothing in royalties.
I think that some artists get nothing from pricey re-issues, it depends which company it it and what sort of contract they can dig up I suppose. Although you would think that the original Co. who had the tapes and leases them out has some responsibility.

Vern Gosdin recorded for a lot of labels in the early 1980's and was having a lot of trouble, some were deleted while others were giving him some pretty shonky royalties. He ended up recording a whole LP of his older songs and hits so that he could have a bit more control of his own material. Yet it's interesting to note that his 1960's country material with his brother Rex {the Gosdin Brothers}, which produced a 1967 top #10, well the masters and a whole LP plus more is sitting in a vault in LA.

Some stuff we can't buy to support the artist. Maybe MP3 could also generate interest in older material?

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