New tuning brought steel to life!

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 9 May 2003 2:17 pm

Sorry for the come-on. No answers...only questions.

I want to find a tuning that will inspire me. After messing around with 6th tunings and finding that I'd rather be playing this stuff on pedal steel, I want to think more towards screaming blues for the 6 string Rick post-war Panda and Silver Hawaiian. I just put an E13 (low to high----B D E G# C# E) on and it might be what I'm looking for. I like the idea of an E based tuning just to stay in a 'guitar blues' mindset---in other words I don't have to radically relearn positions.
Does anyone have a 6 string tuning that made their guitar jump up and talk to them?

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 9 May 2003 2:25 pm

I kinda liked the Leavitt tuning with the root on bottom as opposed to the 7th. It blues'd pretty nice.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 17 May 2003 at 06:06 AM.]

Harry Williams · Post by **Harry Williams** » 9 May 2003 2:50 pm

For blues and rock I have Supro tuned to open E (low E-B-E-G#-B-E high note). I put on the Heaviest strings I could possibly find that wouldn't break, ranging from .018 on the top to .064 on the bottom. Sounds great by itself with no effects, but when you put it through a tube screamer it wails.

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[This message was edited by Harry Williams on 09 May 2003 at 03:52 PM.]

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 9 May 2003 5:45 pm

I like this verision of E13 for 6-string:

E
C#
B
G#
E
D

I just posted an E13 arrangement of Tennessee Waltz in the tablature section. To zoom there click here.

I'll be posting this on my site in a few days... when I get time!

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My Site - Instruction | Doug's Free Tab | Steels and Accessories

[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 09 May 2003 at 09:41 PM.]

Cliff Scholle · Post by **Cliff Scholle** » 10 May 2003 5:11 am

Hi Jon, long time, no talk. Although it's kind of whimpy of me, I mostly just use open E when playing blues on my laps. It's so easy to find my way around (hey, there's the flatted third, right there!). And, easy is good for this old dog. I've started to work on a few songs in open G. The open G sounds really "big" as compared to E and is a nice change.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 10 May 2003 6:21 am

Try the modal tuning (top to bottom) E B E B E B. This is a very powerful tuning for major or minor blues. You cannot hit a wrong string on this, strumming or picking. Any two adjacent strings are a power chord, and two alternating stings are octaves. This works best for slide on a round-neck, but is also good for a strong, primitive sound on a square neck or lap steel.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 10 May 2003 6:45 am

Hey Cliff! Yeah, straight tuned guitar blues has always been my starting point of reference so it makes sense. But I sure like the versitility of an embedded 6th. But that shows how I've got one foot in the swing, one foot in the blues. If I can make myself really commit, then both David Doggett and Harry are showing some no-holds-barred screamer tunings. Doug--I'm looking at your variant. And David Donald--I've managed to remain ignorant of the Leavitt tunings until now (heard of it, just payed no heed) but I think I need to do some homework now. Thanks so far--anyone else? Keep it coming.

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 10 May 2003 8:41 am

The only other tuning I use besides C6/A7 is E9 (ala JB).

Lo to Hi
<pre>
D E F# G# B E
7b 1 2 3 5 1
</pre>

It has that "Swampy, distort-able" 3,5,1 on top yet can produce very beautiful 9th strums.

Very tasty forward and reverse slant options are also available.

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www.horseshoemagnets.com [This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 10 May 2003 at 09:43 AM.]

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 10 May 2003 9:08 am

Ah--James Brown. Hardest working man in show biz. Just kidding. I like that. Nice thing about having more than one guitar (or neck) is that I can leave a tuning up and try one of these on another. C'mere you Silver devil.......

All morning I've been playing a variant of my first post---
---Low-high B D E G B D and didn't even realize that it was Em7/G6. I've been enjoying it.

Ziggie · Post by **Ziggie** » 11 May 2003 5:37 am

I've been using E13 (E C# B G# E D)with great results. Works real well for blues, swing and straight country. The most important thing though is captureing the "feel" for the blues and I truely beleive that, that has to come from the heart & soul. I try to get close to a Hound Dog Taylor type of sound for blues but any great slide guitarist can set a good example.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 11 May 2003 8:57 am

yeah, that would be Doug B's tuning, above. I'm gonna try that soon.
Thanks for the advice. But this was about tunings. I'd just as soon ask 'how do I play the blues'? as 'how do you play with feeling'?. If you gotta ask.........
But thanks.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 15 May 2003 1:54 pm

I just took a break from the sho-bud and tried Doug's tuning, but up higher as
low to high F G B D E G
Definite strumable gut bucket possibilities.
Maybe I will try it on the E 9 neck of the Sho-Bud
*****************>>
Ok I just switched over to my tweaked Leavitt tuning maybe a "leave-it".
low to high A C# E G A B

Normally the Leavitt is this, C# E G Bb C D

but my dobro doesn't like it so high so I lowered it, and I drop the bottom string too.
Found it by accident when I wanted to play some in the kitchen blues and the correct Leavit was too jazzy.

The below is from Brad's Page Of Steel, which is worth checking out fo sho.
http://www.well.com/user/wellvis/tuning.html

"William Leavitt's new tuning from Steel Guitar World: C# E G Bb C D

This tuning gives you a C# diminished chord, a G minor chord, and a C major chord, among others. It's a very interesting tuning for jazzier tunes.
More information on this tuning, including tab for a series of jazz standards, can be obtained from Mike Ihde (mihde@berklee.edu). Joe Wright lists all the modal patterns for this tuning (in the key of C) on his excellent web site."

And a note to me from Mike Ihde, Bill Leavitt's musical executor so to speak. He sells some great TAB for the Leavitt too.

"David, I've always used Scottys SIT half flat C6 set for the Leavitt tuning.
The guages are 15, 18, 22, 24w, 30w, and 36w.
That seems to work just fine since the Leavitt tuning is so close to C6.
The low C goes to C#, the A to Bb and the high E to D. "

Jon since you'rr a C6 head this might be interesting for you to try.
It put a smile on my guitarists face on a old swampy blues.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 15 May 2003 at 03:43 PM.]

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 17 May 2003 9:07 am

I still want to try some form or another of a Leavitt but everything takes time.....most assuredly, BTW, I've spent time studying on Brad's site. Hell, it's THE starting point.
I've been playing all morning with Doug's tuning, as written. I think I like it a lot. It does a whole lot---the only shortcoming I can find is that I'd like a B on the bottom but 6 strings are 6 strings, no matter how many times I count them. You sure start understanding the genesis of 7 & 8 string guitars. But I really like this
<pre>
E
C#
B
G#
E
D</pre>

as an enhanced blues tuning with more versatility than a purely swampy rig. I'm real appreciative of all the contributions to this discussion.

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 17 May 2003 9:19 am

Jon, Jimmie Vaughn get's a great blues groove going on with Hawaiian C13, as heard on his "Family style" album he did with Stevie. It's easy to do the same thing in 6 string C6. The song is "Hillbillies from outerspace".

C13
E
C
A
G
E
C
Bb
C[This message was edited by Jesse Pearson on 17 May 2003 at 10:20 AM.]

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 17 May 2003 9:43 am

Subtract your high and your low and transpose to E and it is the same animal. i don't know where you came up with that notion of me as a C6-er, David, but it ain't so. Some day, maybe, although it would be B6 on my U-12 pedals, but for blues thinking, I'm much more at home thinking of my old 6 string spanish guitar E blues days. (Not that I was in any way accomplished at that).
Thanks for that info, Jesse--I had no idea about J Vaughn.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 17 May 2003 12:08 pm

Jon I got the idea here.
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>But I sure like the versitility of an embedded 6th. But that shows how I've got
one foot in the swing, one foot in the blues. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Mebe I read more into it that there was.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 17 May 2003 at 01:11 PM.]

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 17 May 2003 12:33 pm

Sorry David---that's an absolutely fair enuff read of what I wrote. To express myself a little more accurately, my ears (or at least half of them) say 'swing' and my ability says 'clunk'. I'm a hack E9 player trying to expand into my Uni. And rediscovering the fun of playing the blues. Didn't mean to sound all 'wachoo tawkin about?!' at you.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 17 May 2003 3:19 pm

Didn' think that a bit; what you say? Just noting where I saw it.

I am trying to find a base tuning to replace Nash E9 on the D-10 front neck. Real happy with C6, well more levers shortly, but I want a more blues country neck. Not to mention E9 is so common. Nothing against E9 players who love it, it works for sure.

Just put on Al Marcus's Lean and Mean without doing the rods yet, just to get the feel.
And may try the top 10 of his Real Universal.

I expanded Doug's tuning above.

Well broke string 1 .... fixed now
low to high B D E G# B C# E G# F# D
With out changing pulls it really fits the country blues style we do more. I'll muck with it some more before going under the hood.

It's 2 Am so my brain may be wrong but it seems to have (3 2 1 decending to D)
1 D___b3_____1____7___b5___b9___#5
2 F#___5_____3____9____7 ___4____1
3 G# __6 ___#5____3____1____5____9
4 E____4 ____9____1___#5___b3____7
5 C#___9__maj7 ___6____4____1____5
6 B____1 ____6____5___b3____7____4
7 G#___6 ___#5 ___3____1____5 ___9
8 E ____4 ____9____1___#5___b3 ___7
9 D____b3____1____7___b5___b9___#5
10 B____1 ____6____5___b3____7____4

So I guess now the questions are:
What top string won't snap (A; 13 at D)
and what pulls would make this very fast and just as bluesy.
Not a brain teaser for this hour. 2:45 am

Any analysis and comments gladly accepted.
[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 18 May 2003 at 01:49 AM.]

Kenny Dail · Post by **Kenny Dail** » 17 May 2003 8:18 pm

David, Jon, I don't consider myself a "blues" player or a blues musician but you can get some real phat blues licks on the E9th (cromatics included) by backing up 2 frets (a whole step) from the key chord and still play the conventional A and B pedals. As an example, if you wanted to play a blues phrase in A chord/key (fret five), go to the G (fret three). Your tonic goes from the 4th string at fret five to the 1st string at fret three. Play with it and you will hear the scales/phrases come together. To illustrate further, imagine you are playing Merle Haggard's "The Boittle Let Me Down". And of course you can get the blues scales by lowereing your Es to E flat and moving up three frets. I.E., open with Es lowered is B6 and 3 frets up gives you B minor. If you haven't already tried these approaches...give it shot...

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kd...and the beat goes on...

[This message was edited by Kenny Dail on 17 May 2003 at 09:22 PM.][This message was edited by Kenny Dail on 18 May 2003 at 07:45 AM.]

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 18 May 2003 8:42 am

Hi Kenny

blues scales by lowereing your Es to E flat and moving up three frets. I.E., open with Es lowered is B6 and 3 frets up gives you B minor. If you haven't alreadytried these approaches...give it shot...

Yes I have tried those positions.
There still seems to be something missing for me.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 18 May 2003 9:00 am

kd---you bet. Loads of good blues lay nicely on E9 PSG. But I have found that for me, bar movement is a must. So I'm between the two frets down, the three frets up----and also the 5th fret, E's lowered,-- pockets with a whole lotta slidin' goin' on.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 18 May 2003 4:39 pm

I have been playing the above tuning periodically all day.

Between playing a Bach choral classical concert and a vocal production session
on a Diana Ross song.... No, no schitsophrenia so far today.

I really like this tuning more and more. It really improvises well, I think some thing and it just comes out. And 2 knees still work effectively. Plenty of pockets.
Now to find more pedals. In search of the lost chord.[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 18 May 2003 at 05:41 PM.]

nick allen · Post by **nick allen** » 19 May 2003 2:02 am

Just a thought for a 6-string lap tuning that's bluesy but includes a 6th:
in E, low to high - B C# E G# B E
It's the usual open E without the bottom string, and the 6th note stuck in there.
Works for me...
Nick

Wayne Cox · Post by **Wayne Cox** » 19 May 2003 7:31 am

I recently realized that you don't really have to have a 7th tuning to utilize the most beautiful feature of the "Sacred Steeler" concept,the doubled E strings. Also it works with 6, 8, 10, or 12 strings. The doubled E's seem like a waste of valuable string space untill you strum across the neck and hear the difference. In recent years I have pretty much abandoned my "Country" roots and switched to R & B in order to keep on doing what I love to do most;play music. From Hi to Lo here are a few 6-string tunings to try. E B G# E E D,
E C# B G# E E (on this one the 6th string is an octave lower than the 5th string),and of course there is the E7...E D B G# E E. I realize that these do not seem as musically advanced as the Leavitt tuning,but in real-world playing,they are deceptively powerful;because of the doubled E's. Have fun! ~~W.C.~~

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 28 May 2003 8:35 am

If you have only 8 strings and no pedals, here is a very potent tuning, that I have used in the past.

<pre>

1.E
2.D C#(tuned D down to get E13)
3.B
4.G#
5.F#
6.D
7,B
8.G#

</pre>
1-3-4 Emaj
1-2-3-4 E7th
2-3-4 D diminished
5-6-7-8-E9 and Bminor 6th

That covers a lot of chords available without pedals. I used to have this on the top neck of my nonpedal D8 in 1938....al