non pedal guitars

Billy Jones · Post by **Billy Jones** » 28 Apr 2003 12:10 pm

I'm no stranger to the non pedal guitar but looking for one can be a chore so I decided to build my own. If you are handy in the workshop, you can construct a body that suits you and, quite often, there are parts available that you can assemble to complete the job.
I've built a few now and they work good and look good. My latest was a ten string that I use with an A6th tuning. It has an L705 pickup, a tailpiece that I picked up from my friend Wayne Link and Grover keys. My stand is a keyboard stand that I converted that allows me to adjust the height. I chose not to use controls since I use a volume pedal anyway and I made a semi soft case for it.
I've been playing this guitar along side pedal players for the last three years and, because I built it with TLC, it looks and sounds factory built as any of the boys at the Mid Canada Steel convention will tell you.
If you are up to the task and you can scrape up the cost of the pickup and keyheads plus a the few additional parts needed. If you have the patience and time, it can be fun and rewarding because you did it yourself. Well, maybe a little help from a friend.
You'd be surprised at your ability and maybe even delighted with the results.
I'll bet some of you have already done this haven't you?
Billy Jones

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 28 Apr 2003 4:52 pm

Billy! so good to see you back on the forum!

Wayne Carver · Post by **Wayne Carver** » 29 Apr 2003 5:28 am

Hello, I recently built a 10 string console out of a piece of maple and some parts I bought off Ebay. I bought my pickup from Jerry Wallace. I found four aluminium legs to put on it. I strung it through the body. I didn't put any controls on mine either. I wondered if I should use pedal steel strings on it. I tuned mine C6. I have made six string lap steels from used electric guitar parts like a tele style tailpiece. I did use volume/tone controls on those.

Andy Zynda · Post by **Andy Zynda** » 29 Apr 2003 5:31 am

I know exactly how you feel. http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/003858.html

It was a challenge, but worth every minute & dollar spent on it.
-andy-

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 29 Apr 2003 9:36 am

Here are some noodle boards I made out of "Mukwa", an African hard-wood.
This wood came from Central Africa and was used as railroad ties.
Mukwa wood can only be harvested when the tree is between 100 and 120 years old. The sleepers (ties) were made about a century ago and have been in the African rain and sun for over 80 years before it was bought up for furniture. So the wood is about 200 years old.

I made the 12 string out of 2 layers and the "catcan" is only one layer of wood. The single layer of wood is strong enough to take the stress of the 8 strings.

The 12-string has a George-L pickup and the 8-string has a J-bass pickup.
The 12-string sounds better than my S12 Remington with a Danny shields pickup. The J-bass pup sounds very single-coil like.

If there is enough interest, I will start making single layer guitars (without pickup and strings) for a reasonable price. (Ballpark at the moment: $90 without shipping from South Africa)

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Peter den Hartogh-Fender Artist S10-Remington U12-Hilton Volume Pedal-Gibson BR4 lapsteel-Guya "Stringmaster" Copy-MusicMan112RP-Peavy Rage158- - My Animation College in South Africa[This message was edited by Peter on 01 May 2003 at 11:16 AM.]

Billy Jones · Post by **Billy Jones** » 29 Apr 2003 10:18 am

Thank you Andy. It's good to be back. My love for the non-pedal guitar has increased over the last few years since I decided to use it at the steel shows. Especially since I changed the A6th tuning by putting the F# on the first string. I can take a standard set of C6th strings, lower a couple of strings by half tone and it's there. Of course, this is a 10 string lap and I really love it. I believe I mentioned that I built it using Ash but I also built it hollow to allow me to modify it as I please and I've padded the bottom. I made a mistake when I built the bridge and discovered that my strings were too far apart so I tapered the slots because I didn't want to make another support. That worked because now the distance between the strings are adjustable. The guitar is very light and very strong because I used wood that came from a church pew that was being renovated and the pieces, 1 inch by 1 inch had been laminated and had many years to cure. Consequently, there is no warp.
Here's a kicker for you. The first two 8 string guitars I built, I made out of particle board and there has been absolutely no problems with them either. That was 15 years ago and they still look and play great. I discovered that the little X-style keyboard stand is very solid and secure. I've tipped the stand 45 degrees and the guitar stayed secure without any clamping, probably due to the rubber bushings they provide. Anyway, I'm pretty excited with the results, the tone and the portability.
Billy

Billy Jones · Post by **Billy Jones** » 29 Apr 2003 10:24 am

Peter, They are terrific. I'm sure that you should get some bites on those.
Billy

Wayne Carver · Post by **Wayne Carver** » 29 Apr 2003 11:25 am

Peter, does your cat can have a reso sound? I made one sorta like that with an aluminium bowl. I had a piezo pickup on the biscuit bridge on top of the bowl and a regular pickup in the body beyond the reso cavity. Your guitars are very nice looking.

Chris Scruggs · Post by **Chris Scruggs** » 29 Apr 2003 2:12 pm

I have been thinking of building a single 8 for a while. Where should I go to get parts made? All I would need is the 8 string string thru bridge, nut, and fretboard.
I have found a gibson style 7 string tune-o-matic bridge, but I would still like a metal
nut, instead of plastic.

Billy Jones · Post by **Billy Jones** » 29 Apr 2003 4:19 pm

Chris .. You could use aluminum 1/4 x whatever height you need then carefully cut the groves so there will be no sharp edges.
Billy

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 1 May 2003 10:35 am

Wayne, my "cat-can" does not really have a reso sound. Maybe that is because I do not have a piezo pickup on it. I tried different materials for the bridge and when I used a certain type of hard plastic, it got close to reso, but not close enough. I also tried to stick the bridge on the flat surface of the can, instead of the hard edges of the can. That also made it better, but I think I will still need a piezo pup. And of course, nothing beats a real resonator guitar.

Chris, the parts are easy...all I did was using an aluminum end plate with holes for the strings. The bridge is just round aluminum without grooves.

I don't need grooves because I made sure the bridge was close to the endplate.
The nut is the same as the bridge, except for grooves to hold the strings in place. The grooves were made with a file whilst turning the nut using a powerdrill.

The fretboard was copied from an original one and captured digitally. Now I print it any scale, matte-laminate it, and glue it on a sheet of perspex.

The tuning keys are either mounted on strips for a 12-string acoustic guitar, or loose single ones for 6-string guitar. Just buy a couple of sets of tuners.

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Peter den Hartogh-Fender Artist S10-Remington U12-Hilton Volume Pedal-Gibson BR4 lapsteel-Guya "Stringmaster" Copy-MusicMan112RP-Peavy Rage158- - My Animation College in South Africa[This message was edited by Peter on 02 May 2003 at 03:54 AM.]

Larry Phleger · Post by **Larry Phleger** » 1 May 2003 11:48 am

Peter.
How did you capture the original fretboard digitally? I have an old triple neck National. The paint is flaking off the back of the fretboards. It sounds like that may be a solution, as I have no idea where to find replacement fretboards.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 1 May 2003 2:10 pm

Larry, all I did is put it on a good quality scanner and used a 300 dpi resolution. You may have to scan it in 2 sections and join it in Photoshop. Make sure you scan exactly straight. Use a center-line on the back of the original.
Then I touched up the damaged areas and in one case I replaced the markers with different ones. When I did a test print, I compared the size with the original and it was exactly the same scale: 24 1/4".

When I print, I first print one half, then the other half. I make sure there is an overlap on both printed pages. Then I join the 2 pieces by cutting exactly on the fretline. This way you dont see the seam (join). Make sure that you draw a center-line at the back of the printed fretboard. That way you can join them straight. I use a lightbox to do this, but you can use a window.
I then take it to a laminating place and they will matte-laminate it for you. Don't use shiny stuff. If you do not want to have sticky tape at the back of the join, just tape the 2 pieces together OUTSIDE the printed area. This means you need to leave a lot of white paper around the fretboard, and use that area to stick things together.
Good luck.

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Peter den Hartogh-Fender Artist S10-Remington U12-Hilton Volume Pedal-Gibson BR4 lapsteel-Guya "Stringmaster" Copy-MusicMan112RP-Peavy Rage158- - My Animation College in South Africa

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 1 May 2003 3:14 pm

Peter, you always cease to amaze me! Your skills are near reproch! You are a very amazing guy in a couple ways. You have more talent in you whole body than I have in my little finger! All seriousness aside, I think you could build a pedal steel and do a very good job. As far as hardwood goes, some of the hardest wood in the world is grown in Africa. "Ebony" is very prized in this country. However, it's very heavy.
Overall, you have done some very nice work. The fretboard thing is great too.

Bobbe Seymour · Post by **Bobbe Seymour** » 1 May 2003 3:17 pm

(where's my check for $1.72?)

Your buddy,
The Phantom

Larry Phleger · Post by **Larry Phleger** » 1 May 2003 5:16 pm

Peter.
Thanks a million. This will really help me resurrect this old gem.
Larry Phleger

Donald Ruetenik · Post by **Donald Ruetenik** » 1 May 2003 7:36 pm

http://www.dougsparling.com/software/fretcalc/
A very good Fret Calculating program you can download for free. I recently built an 8 string that I changed from 24" to 23 7/8' scale to allow the bridge a bit more adjustable movement. The program worked perfect.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 2 May 2003 2:26 am

Thanks Bobbe for your lecture in reversed English.

I wonder if Bill H or Earnest B can teach me even more.
And your check is in the email.

Larry, I hope you get it sorted out. Just dont throw away the old fretboard.
When you print it on paper, just make sure that the paper is strong enough.
I found that some paper will split when laminated. I mean the front may peel off the back.

Donald, I can also scale the whole fretboard down by making a percentage calculation. It works perfectly.

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Peter den Hartogh-Fender Artist S10-Remington U12-Hilton Volume Pedal-Gibson BR4 lapsteel-Guya "Stringmaster" Copy-MusicMan112RP-Peavy Rage158- - My Animation College in South Africa

[This message was edited by Peter on 02 May 2003 at 03:50 AM.]

Donald Ruetenik · Post by **Donald Ruetenik** » 2 May 2003 7:43 pm

Peter, I am impressed by your very unique innovations on your Laps. Although aluminum works well at the 'string pressure points'(nut and bridge), it doesn't ring like heat-treated carbon steel.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 3 May 2003 1:00 am

Donald, I have not tried carbon steel yet.
But I discovered something else:
The radius of the aluminum bridge is crucial. If it is too small, it sounds boring with not enough sustain. If it is too large, it starts sounding like a "sitar-bar" but if it is just right, you get long sustain and a very special "ring" to it.
I think Bobbe Seymour has been making this statement about the radius all along!

Next week I'll try a 1/2" carbon steel rod. Any thoughts about the radius?

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Peter den Hartogh-Fender Artist S10-Remington U12-Hilton Volume Pedal-Gibson BR4 lapsteel-Guya "Stringmaster" Copy-MusicMan112RP-Peavy Rage158- - My Animation College in South Africa

Dirk B · Post by **Dirk B** » 3 May 2003 1:21 am

Peter,
For only $90 I might be interested in one of these as a "noodle board", as you say, to practice pick-blocking on family trips when I can't bring the steel, etc. Looks like a great practice tool.

Peter · Post by **Peter** » 3 May 2003 2:26 am

Dirk, I am not planning on making these for sale, UNLESS there is enough demand for it. I have not yet worked out the shipping costs.
My favourite one is the one with the single layer of wood, because it is light and therfore very portable.
The double layer of wood makes it heavy and you'll need a stand.

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 3 May 2003 6:29 am

Nice design lines Peter, good for you! Have you done much research on 24" scale with 3/8th string spacing ala Ricky Davis's SS Hawaiian? Thanks...

Wayne Carver · Post by **Wayne Carver** » 3 May 2003 6:46 am

Do you think using a round bridge makes for a better sound than a flat top bridge of around 3/16"? If you don't cut grooves what keeps the strings from sliding?

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 3 May 2003 9:42 am

Wayne, I believe Peter said the tailpiece is close enough to the bridge to keep the strings from sliding.