More on Ric Bakelite String Gages

Dana Duplan · Post by **Dana Duplan** » 16 Apr 2003 6:25 am

I tried the .016 for the 1st three strings on my new 7-String Ric as previously mentioned, but the string balance is way off. I then tried my standard gages of .015, .018, .022P etc. and the balance was better. The balance on the remaining strings is uneven too: .024W, .030, .036, .042. Also tried a plain .024 4th string per Jerry, and it sounded terrible. Guess I need to experiment some? Any feedback or suggestions on setting my axe up? Also suggestions on adjusting the pickup?
Thanks much,
DD[This message was edited by Dana Duplan on 16 April 2003 at 09:17 AM.][This message was edited by Dana Duplan on 16 April 2003 at 09:18 AM.]

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 16 Apr 2003 9:41 am

WHAT DO YOU MEAN? String balance "is off"?
Could you be more specific? The gage strings mentioned here before have worked beautifully FOR ME. Not likely the strings.
ARE WE TALKING "sound" here? Are the lighter gaged strings touching your pickup?
You MUST develop a "light touch" and not fall back into any heavy handed technique.
Are the grooves in the NUT, worn to deep or what is its condition?
You know that the knobs on either side of the pickup adjust the pickup. Lord knows what the former owner did.....with it. I'd make small 1/4 turn adjustments on the pickup. I'd crank it down as far (LOW) as it will go and then adjust it upward. I'd start with the top strings first.
Just some thoughts. Several of mine came so far out of adjustment it was a miracle any sound could be produced. Lot's of mechanics in the world..........still fewer steel guitar professionals. Finess is the secret not brute force as you well know and appreciate. Good Luck.

Dana Duplan · Post by **Dana Duplan** » 16 Apr 2003 9:56 am

Ray, thanks for your reply. What I ment by the string balance being off is that the 1st string was louder than the 2nd, and the 2nd louder than the 3rd. I know that the pole pieces are staggerd to accomodate using larger strings for the 1st three strings, etc., and then the 4th through 7th (wound strings). Thanks for the tip on pickup adjustment.
DD

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 16 Apr 2003 1:12 pm

Ian McLatchie · Post by **Ian McLatchie** » 16 Apr 2003 2:05 pm

"I've even seen guitars with the entire pickup mounted in reverse, with the highest pole piece under the bass string."

I know about those, Jeff, as two of my Rickenbachers came that way (wouldn't you think anyone who owned such an instrument would figure something was wrong when the balance was suddenly so different after they'd had the pickup out?!). Getting the pickup height just right is crucial to the sound of the Rick horseshoes, and between that and experimenting with string gauges it can take a while to get the perfect set-up. With the Silver Hawaiians, I've also found that over time the body caves slightly behind the pickup, making it necessary to install washers under the bottom screw mounts to bring the pickup level. Doing so made a huge difference to the tone of mine.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 17 Apr 2003 9:20 am

Regarding Jeff's comment about "punch".

I've found the JB string set-up to have all the punch I'd EVER NEED. If one applies a dynamic picking approach, one can get all that "punch" like J.Murphy used to get on the beginning of his many fabulous single string runs. A hard to beat sound, for sure.

I believe it has more to do with the pickup
angle beneath the strings..........AND....
the adjustments of the amp. WIth reserve power at the amp, the PEAVY and my FENDER tube amp, BOTH seem to deliver that "special punch" sound that I believe many of us have sought but found to be elusive.

Jeff raises some good points, great insite!

I wonder if some of those affects boxes are eating up "that punch"?

Fred Brown · Post by **Fred Brown** » 17 Apr 2003 9:46 am

Can anyone describe what is meant by "punch"? Or a link to examples? I'm not sure I know what it is. But I'd bet I want some. Now remember I'm a newbie. So go gentle with me.
Fred

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 17 Apr 2003 9:47 am

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 17 Apr 2003 12:03 pm

I was wondering about the tension on the 2nd and 3rd strings if your using .016? I would think that they would be pretty slack and you would get uneven volume out of the strings because of the light touch required to play them. I also noted that JB doesn't suggest to do this?

Dick McIntire used a long scale frypan with an extra thick Horseshoe pickup in the studio. Lorene Ruymar had a statement in her Hawaiian Steel Guitar book that discribes dicks sound as "he still inspires many steel guitarists to emulate his beautifully expressive, distinctively legato style". I don't hear any heavy handed playing on the Bruce Clark CD's I own, the tone is great. Pure clean vintage Ricky pickup sound.

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 17 Apr 2003 1:04 pm

I don't mean having a heavy hand like heavy-metal rocker Dick McIntire

------------------

www.horseshoemagnets.com

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 17 Apr 2003 1:25 pm

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 17 Apr 2003 6:08 pm

One thing that really impresses me about McIntires sound, is the long sustain without lose of volume. I don't think he was using a volume pedal and this kind of sustain without lose of volume speaks volumes of the beauty of those Ricky pickups.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 17 Apr 2003 6:14 pm

To my knowledge, Dick McIntire never used a volume pedal but relied on his right hand pinky (wrapped around the volume control) for those beautiful "violin" effects.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 17 Apr 2003 8:41 pm

Very humerous line there Jeff. I didn't think you were old enough to know what a Victrola was. You never cease to amaze me.
I even have a Nick Lucas plectrum guitar pick. Actually, I felt certain you were more of a Roy Smeck fan.

Regarding the three lite gaged strings: Properly tuned, and picked with a professional touch.....the "punch" sound will automatically appear on a prewar Rick if the amp is set-up properly and there are none of those electronic gadgets on line to mess up the original signal.

To discover what "punch" is all about, one must first "HEAR" it, I'd think. To do so, you will have to dig out some old, old Jerry Byrd or J.Murphy tunes, ideally on someone else's old records, and not their own studio
recordings of instrumentals of later years.

Jerry's playing on the early day Grand Ole Opry stage with Red Foley, will present CLASSIC "punch" in the Rickenbacher way. Same with Murphy with Tex Williams and Smokey Rogers bands.........NOT the newer stuff.

With these light weight strings, one CANNOT be lazy and rest the entire weight of one's arm on the strings. They are not an armrest. One cannot be timid about picking the strings. J.Byrd gets that "punch" whether on a single string run or with a three string forward slant.

The different gaged strings "BREAK" the smooth silky flow of a steady melody line which BYRD NEVER DOES. Byrd can start high up and using reverse and forward slants intermingled with one another he can come clear to the bottom of his phrase and in many instances, the untrained ear cannot figure WHAT he's doing or HOW. Most other players you can hear those definite "BREAKS" when they drop back to the second or third strings.

"PUNCH" is a very identifiable sound and not all guitars can deliver it. It's not a loud or harsh or twangy sound! It's a barely perceptible "pop" of the note picked, as if overloading the amp speaker, or perhaps the pickup itself, not sure which.

I'm no where as knowledgeable technically as are the majority of others on this Forum.
This is about as good as an amatuer can do to describe/explain my definition of "PUNCH".
Hope it helps. Now, if it isn't the Rickenbacher pickup or Bakelite construction
or JB's hands that make that punch, it might be the old Volu-Tone amp that he used for years. I dunno!

Some of the early day Red Kirk Mercury records with JERRY BYRD on them and/or the old live Grand Ole Opry Shows with RED FOLEY
clearly demonstrate "PUNCH". Give them a listen........

Bill Leff · Post by **Bill Leff** » 18 Apr 2003 6:26 am

If someone can post an mp3 with example of the "punch" being described here, I'd love to hear it. I'm not sure I know what you guys are referring to.

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 18 Apr 2003 8:58 am

I can DELIVER............but HOW does one go about doing it. I've got a fabulous computer but not smart enought to drive it like a full fledged, certified 'puter person.
I can follow directions quite well if they are accurate.