Fender Hawaiian Guitars

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 11 Feb 2003 8:06 am

The resale cost of anything is determined by one of the oldest cliche's around,

"Price is determined by supply and demand".

To say that an item is "cheap" or "overpriced", etc is meaningless apart from the quote above.

A brand new 6 string 1930's Bakelite Rick cost $62.50. NO person in their right mind would sell one today for less than 7-9 times that; and in some cases such as the 7 stringers, 10-12 times the original price. (NOTE: a brand new 30's 7 stringer cost only $72.50!)

The same is true for many vintage instruments such as Stratocasters, Telecasters and Les Pauls, along with Emmons' P/P's, etc.

Price is strictly a relative term that always goes back to "supply and demand".

Why does a little carbon crystal so small that a women's fingers dwarf it; sell for 1,000's of dollars? Yet you can't eat it, drink it, ride in it, live in it or play it?

In the case of the above instruments it is a true test of real "value". Sadly the reverse is true. One of the finest built PSG's is a Sierra. They justifiably cost (if the manufacturer is to stay in business), a lot of money. But for some reason, their resale value drops dramatically to subsequent buyers. And the reason is, "demand".

And so it goes,

carl

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 11 Feb 2003 8:33 am

What would be a definitive example of the tonal range of a stringmaster and also a deluxe non pedal steel. I have the "best of Noel Boggs" and tone wise, I found it to be one of the thinnest tones I have ever heard on steel. There must be a couple of famous players who got a deeper robust muscularity to their tone out of these two types of pickups. If you more experienced guys were to recommend a couple of songs, that really sound great tone and playing wise, what would those songs be? Thanks...

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 11 Feb 2003 8:47 am

Hey, this topic pushed a few buttons.

They sound great to a lot of people. If they did not sound great, we would not be talking about it today.

Over priced? They are worth whatever someone will pay. I think they are so inexpensive compared to new modern six strings.

How about a 1962 Strat?

What would a new D8 or T8 cost today?

We need another hit like "Sleepwalk", then find out how much they are worth.

IMHO

------------------
Stringmaster T8, Benoit 8, National Tricone

Post by **Joey Ace** » 11 Feb 2003 9:25 am

The pricing reflects the "Supply and Demand" effect that Carl explained.

Also there's this neat term that I recently discovered: the TTFAO factor.

(Try To Find Another One)

Paul Osbty · Post by **Paul Osbty** » 11 Feb 2003 11:03 am

I recently picked up a Deluxe 6. Minimal use, case and legs included. All in A-/B+ condition. Paid $625. Its vintage is about 1970. $625 in 2003 was about $135 in 1970. The list price of everything in 1970 was about $225. $225 in 1970 is about $1040 in 2003.

Depending on the model, of course, Fender steels are still very reasonable. I see horribly beat up Telecasters from the same vintage going for $3000. I wouldn't buy any vintage Fender other than a steel.

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 11 Feb 2003 11:16 am

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 11 Feb 2003 11:25 am

The thin sound some guys got "back in the day" was mostly due the underpowered amps then available.Case in point: I recently played Joaquin Murphey's old Bigsby D-8(now in Chas Smith's collection)through a Session 400 and it sounded as fat and Hi-Fi as any modern steel rig. Same goes with my 65 Stringmaster - a huge sound through a modern amp.

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 11 Feb 2003 11:46 am

I've often thought Noel might have had all the necks on a Fender quad, going at the same time, so he could jump around necks on the same song. I know this will give a way thin tone. Some guys like this thin effect for cutting through the mix of a large band. I heard "Sleep Walk" was recorded on a Fender Deluxe. That recording has a pretty fat tone. If I ever get a Fender down the road, it will probably be the deluxe. I like the western swing thing. I still would like to know who to listen to for a fat string master tone!

Russ Young · Post by **Russ Young** » 11 Feb 2003 12:12 pm

Erv, I see that a 1956 T8 with 24.5" scales just sold for $1250 over on Buy and Sell. So I'd say you did pretty well in getting yours back, particularly since "sentimental value" often means "more buck$."

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 11 Feb 2003 12:54 pm

Jesse
The "thin" sound you make reference to was in fact Noel Boggs's choice. Noel would use the tone blender control located under the cover on the tailpiece and he would set the tone blender full on to treble.

In addition he would set his amp settings at
high treble and use very little bass. This is the "cutting tone" that he preffered.

As for his switching necks,yes he did have all 4 necks open as he switched necks during his playing. Many times however he would use one neck at a time and would get a fuller fatter sound.

I watched Noel a number of times during his playing career and this is how he got the sound he wanted.

When Noel played his Custom guitar the treble was not as pronounced as when he went to the Stringmaster.

You refer to "The Best Of Noel Boggs" and you are correct,he did use as many high's as were possible.

There is a noticeable differece in tone between the Custom guitar and the Stringmaster. Much more high's are available
with the Stringmaster due to the much desired tone blender circuitry.

Noel went back to playing his Custom shortly before his passing.

MJ has a good point,but the amp in this instance was not the reason for the "high" cutting almost ear piercing tone. It was the sound that Noel preffered.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 11 Feb 2003 1:05 pm

Russ:
The lady set the price and I paid it. I guess I'd have gone higher for "sentimental value". The guitar isn't a cherry however, I have it all stripped down at present and will be refinishing it shortly.
Erv

Jesse Pearson · Post by **Jesse Pearson** » 11 Feb 2003 1:12 pm

Thanks for that insight Jody, that clears up alot of questions I had.

Rick Collins · Post by **Rick Collins** » 11 Feb 2003 4:22 pm

Mr. Jody, Johnny Sibert also preferred the high shrill tone. He also played a 26" scale Stringmaster. The best recorded tone I've ever heard by a Fender steel guitar is on the Carl Smith recording, "There She Goes".

Rick

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 11 Feb 2003 4:56 pm

I have a mid fifties T-8 Stringmaster, and the thing I notice most is that the tone on the near neck is more treble that the far neck. Of course the far neck has a lot more wood in it, because of the step design. The far neck has a mellow tone compared to the near (closest) neck. If you listen close to guys who use all the necks on a tune,you may hear a different tone on some runs. Anyway, I like my Stringmaster!!!
Bill

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 11 Feb 2003 5:50 pm

I had an interesting discussion with my very long-time compadre John Ely the other night, and he came up with this... IMHO, bizarre... conclusion: the best Stringmasters are the ones with ODD number of necks... the Deluxes and the T-8's. The doubles and the quads don't make it for him.

I think that theory is koo-koo, personally.

John's gone back to MN by now, so I didn't get to take a lesson with him. I feel he really is one of the better non-pedal men in the world. To pre-empt any questions, he's temporarily back in Minnesota doing a software gig, though he still has a foot in the Honolulu scene. Apparently, 9/11 killed the tourism business to a great extent.

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Dana Duplan · Post by **Dana Duplan** » 11 Feb 2003 8:40 pm

Speaking of John Ely--You can hear some good fat Stringmaster tone on Tom Morrell's "No Peddlers Aloud" CD. I especially like John's arrangement of "Under the Double Eagle." That one will keep you busy working on technique for a long while.
DD

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 11 Feb 2003 9:38 pm

Dana,,how ya doing my friend.I thought John Ely was playing a Custom on that CD?. Anyway
you look at it,Fender steel guitars are not by any means weak on the punch.

Leo Fender was a fanatic on treble & bite and thats obvious when we hear what he has accompolished.

Its all in the players hands and feel and most of all imagination and of course the amp and the settings.

I like my Fenders punchy with treble, bass, and everything it has to offer. If it dont have that Fender thing I cant play it.
It Dont Mean A Thing If It Aint Got That Swing.

They can say what they please but it was LEO
FENDER who took the steel guitar and contributed more than anyone else in our business.

Once the existing Fenders are bought up,there will be a price explosion. If you can,,, buy one now. Your CD is Great Dana.

Did I hear a Bigsby in that mix?? whats that all about Alfie

just kidding.Your CD is "way cool".

Andy Alford · Post by **Andy Alford** » 12 Feb 2003 4:19 am

I own a Deluxe,Dual Professional,and the Custom.I think that they are the sound I am looking for.The pickups are super hot and the sounds sure cuts through in a band.

Andy Alford · Post by **Andy Alford** » 12 Feb 2003 4:21 am

I own a Deluxe,Dual Professional,and the Custom.I think that they are the sound I am looking for.The pickups are super hot and the sounds sure cuts through in a band.

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 12 Feb 2003 6:43 am

Here's John Ely (and me on guitar) at the Hawaiian Steel Guitar Asssociation's (HSGA)
2002 Joliet, IL convention. John played this Fender single 8 Deluxe(Stringmaster) all weekend and got some beautiful sounds out of it. He used a silver faced Fender Twin Reverb amp(guitar straight into amp, no effects).

Needless to say John wowed everyone in attendance. His virtuosity and total
musicality overflowed on everything he played, Hawaiian, Western Swing, Jazz
standards etc.

On the Friday night of the convention he held a FREE informal seminar where attendees could ask questions on any aspect of his playing. The seminar lasted two hours and
John was very open and willing to share his "secrets".

This year's Joliet convention is set for October 2-4, 2003. Same place, same fun,
Holiday Inn Express, Joliet IL (just outside of Chicago).

------------------
Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website
<FONT SIZE=1 COLOR="#8e236b"><p align=CENTER>[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 12 February 2003 at 08:01 AM.]</p></FONT>

Jody Carver · Post by **Jody Carver** » 12 Feb 2003 9:15 am

Thank you Gerald.

That sure is a nice photo and I'm sure people
that admire John Ely's exceptional talent will appreciate you posting that.

I feel that John Ely is much underated overall and he is one of the "giants" of non
pedal guitar. I'm sure happy he chose a Fender

as his choice of the many other fine guitars out there.

Thank you again.

Jody

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 12 Feb 2003 2:22 pm

I must second Jody on that one... John Ely's playing is absolutely gorgeous. I am seldom wowed by any steelers of the past 30 years... I said "WOW" and then "WOW" again when I heard John... and that was only a recording of him!

I got my Stringmaster D-8 in December and haven't been able to keep my hands off of it since. The ol' bakelite has taken the back seat. If you set the Fender just right, you can get the nice scooped out sound too. But the bakelite is still nice for those lu'au affairs... a D-8 is a little too much... "Woo-hoo look at Mr. Bigshot with his double neck guitar...oh, and excuuuse meee...with legs too eh?"

Post by **Joey Ace** » 12 Feb 2003 3:38 pm

I got a little creative with some of the YES photo links that were recently posted..

It would be a nice Fender ad, if they only still made the things.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 12 Feb 2003 5:20 pm

John Ely is indeed a fine player. I was kind of his ginea pig 10 or 12 years ago when I wrote to him for lessons. He has done a great deal of thinking about tone production and position playing for steel and it really shows in his beautiful sound and the logic and musicality of his improvising. There's an inteview with John in my forthcoming book.

Dana Duplan · Post by **Dana Duplan** » 13 Feb 2003 5:31 am

Jody Buddy: Thanks for the kind words (again) on our CD. You got it Bud--I used my Bigsby on all of the electric steel tunes, with the exception of "Honolulu Moon", which was my early '50's Fender Deluxe. I typically use my D8 Stringmaster live.

I looked at the "No Peddlers" CD, and it states that John Ely used a Triple-Neck Stringmaster, though a new Deluxe Reverb. This is a "must have" CD in my opinion--good sampling from some of the best non-peddlers.
DD