Looking For Feedback... New Tab Program!

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 16 Aug 2001 6:22 pm

Doug: I am only going by comments made in past threads on the topic of tablature. I know there are people out there who like the idea of the "#"s "b"s. ie as was used in the Manual Of Styles. (That may be the one you are referring to.)
Anyway this option Matthieu has programmed in the Demo at present. I hope he keeps it and provides for it in the Registered version.

[This message was edited by Roy Thomson on 16 August 2001 at 07:25 PM.]

Joe Delaronde · Post by **Joe Delaronde** » 16 Aug 2001 8:18 pm

Matthieu (?)
As a registered user, how do I know when you
update the program so I may get the latest vesion, and how is it numbered. IE; V2.6.01, V2.6.02, etc.
Thanks
Joe [This message was edited by Joe Delaronde on 16 August 2001 at 09:22 PM.]

Matthieu Leschemelle · Post by **Matthieu Leschemelle** » 17 Aug 2001 6:02 am

Roy:

Don't worry, my constant concern is keeping the maximum flexibility.

TODO:

Regarding the key strokes, it is just a little facility allowing a quicker entry. So the "customizability" is not critical. In most cases, I've understood that an 'A' means a full tone higher, a 'B' a semi-tone higher... and TablEdit will apply these simple rules. If you want something more specific, you still can use the Note pitch menu.

OTOH, there is already a customization feature that you all seem have missed. You can change the symbols , i.e. to display 'EE' instead of 'E'.

These settings are not saved with the file but in the initialization file. This means Roy will still have his # and b when he loads any tablature on his PC.

The reasons are:
a) I can't change my file format so easily ;
b) the most important point seems to me that you could get the output you want, especially for published works. It is less desirable you could impose your preferences to the others users. Just my opinion.

Steve Feldman · Post by **Steve Feldman** » 17 Aug 2001 10:11 am

It appears you've got a hit here, Matthieu. It's already head and shoulders better than any tab program I've seen for PSG, and it sounds like it's getting better all the time. Congrats on a job well done.

SF

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 17 Aug 2001 11:17 am

To date I have not been able to bring up a preview of my input that I have done with the Demo that will provide for "Four" lines of both the music notation and the tab on one page. I have tried to squeeze the two bars together to accomplish this..to no avail. The maximum I can get is "three" lines of each to a page.
This may not seem like a big deal but won't it mean a lot of pages if you are working a long song...or..exercise?
The only option would be to decrease the font it would seem. Is this possible? Further
if the font is any smaller than provided for in the demo would it be too small on the printout to read easily?
Just some questions.
When I enter tab data and see the musical notation automatically appear on the staff up above it is really amazing. Then to also have the corresponding midi playback to check your work.....super!
Here's something I tried that really is neat.
I entered the following modified intro to the song "Slowly":

3-----3----3----10
3-----3A---3----10A

On playing it back you can really hear
the pedal action.

When I did this I had a guitar player with me who has used Tabledit
for 3 years. He was quite impressed to think the program has come so far.
Great stuff Matthieu!!

Roy T.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 17 Aug 2001 1:29 pm

Yes, it's awesome stuff. I'm learning more about it every day. I just discovered that hitting "Enter" on your keyboard will call up the note options box. That's a pretty handy shortcut.

Type a number into any space on the tab and then hit "Enter". Check off "slide", or whatever you want, and hit "Enter" again.

I hope that everyone reading this thread will download the Free demo (see page 1 of this post) and try this exciting program. BTW, I have no financial interest in
TablEdit at all. I'm just trying to promote it in the PSG community because I see it as an advancement for us, and I appreciate TablEdit's reaching out to us.

Here is a GUIDE to getting started with the new TablEdit.

open the program and:

1) click on SCORE at the top
2) in the dropdown menu click on INSTRUMENT
3) then click on the PEDAL STEEL GUITAR option and click on OK
4) using the arrows on your keyboard, put the blue square on a desired string (space) and enter a number
5) to add letters for pedals and levers, click on NOTE up above, and in the dropdown menu click on PITCH CHANGE. Choose a letter, for example... A , and that letter should appear right after the number in your tablature.
6) Adding slide lines or pedal change lines: type in two numbers on the same string (space), and put the blue square on the number to the left. Hit "Enter" and the note options box will appear. Click on "slide" and hit "Enter" again. Use the same box to add vibrato, ringing note, etc.

Click on the PRINT PREVIEW to see how the page will look when printed out.

I don't know about you folks, but I'm pretty impressed with this program.
I've been looking for something like this for years.

------------------
www.dougbsteel.com

[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 17 August 2001 at 02:33 PM.][This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 17 August 2001 at 02:37 PM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 17 Aug 2001 6:46 pm

Matthieu:
It appears that when I put the instrument to "Pedal Steel Guitar", that the program wants to slur EVERY pedal or knee lever marked. (Unless I'm doing something wrong, which is very possible.) It's very important that you only hear slurs when the tab is MARKED for a slur, and not automatically just because the A or B pedal is marked. Am I doing it wrong?

------------------
www.jimcohen.com

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 17 Aug 2001 7:23 pm

Jim, Don't you like that country twang?

Yes, the slur sound is heard every time a pedal or lever is used. That's built into the program. I don't mind that because the audio is just for reference IMO [This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 17 August 2001 at 08:28 PM.]

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 18 Aug 2001 3:17 am

It would be better if there were another symbol to put over the pedal/KL letter to indicate that you want the pedal "squeezed" in, so you hear the slur, and ONLY when you want to hear the slur.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 18 Aug 2001 3:31 am

Qustion from a non-pedal player: can you get the slur sound in playback if you tab out a behind-the-bar bend? [This message was edited by Andy Volk on 18 August 2001 at 04:35 AM.]

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 18 Aug 2001 10:05 am

I would say so Andy.
Enter a half tone # beside the fret number.
Should work the same as a pedal or knee lever.
Good point!

Matthieu Leschemelle · Post by **Matthieu Leschemelle** » 18 Aug 2001 12:54 pm

Here is my daily global reply

Roy:

You can play with many layout options to get a more compact printout. The most efficient way is the print scale setting. You can also play witht the vertical spacing options.

For example I can get 4 systems per page with the print scale set to -8 and the vertical spacing between tab and notation to 2.

Jim Cohen:

The slur audio effect. Actually it's a built-in effect. I have been told many times ago, the starting note should be played like a bend grace note.

However, since there are many note attributes with no use in PSG tab, it should not be too difficult to "recycle" some of them for PSG tab like I've done for accordion tab.

So, there could be a special palette for PSG with an effect to play a plain raised note. I need your input for the other buttons. What are your specifics needs?

To all:

When there are several pitch changes at the same time, the midi playback can be false. For avoiding this, you have to check the advanced option "Solo Predefined Instrument". So each string has its own midi channel.

I'll upload tomorrow a new demo v2.60 a3 at http;//www.tabledit.com/download/tev260d.exe.

New changes:

- the keystrokes [A] [C] [D] [E] [F] [G] insert a quick pitch change. Please use the sequence [Shift]+[A]. Typing simply [a] in lower case has another (useful) effect.

- the space between the notes is increased by printout in order pitch change letters or symbols are not erased.

- the slides are always displayed as a single horizontal line.

Obviously these features are only available when the "Pedal Steel Guitar" option is checked.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 18 Aug 2001 8:32 pm

I used the latest version of TablEdit to create this. What do you think? There is a bit of a learning curve... but it is so worth it! Thank you Matthieu! I'm looking forward to trying some guitar tab... and dobro... and lap steel... 8 string, 6 string... and 12 string PSG...etc, etc, etc

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www.dougbsteel.com

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 19 Aug 2001 1:42 am

Beautiful!

Matthieu Leschemelle · Post by **Matthieu Leschemelle** » 19 Aug 2001 2:29 am

The link in my previous posting was mispelled. Here is its correct form:
http://www.tabledit.com/download/tev260d.exe

v2.60 a3 is available.

Henning Kock · Post by **Henning Kock** » 19 Aug 2001 9:16 am

19.aug.2001,
Your tab program looks great. What we also need is ties for tied tabultaure fret figures. Just like two notes in musical notation are tied together.
Such a tie will replace the arrows shown.
All the best
Henning
Henning Kock
(pedal steel guitar, piano, keyboards)
Henning K. Music
111 Aarhusvej
DK-8300 Odder
Denmark,
Europe
phone 8654 2959
--------------------------------------------
e-mail address: henningkmusic@hotmail.com
webpages:
pedal steel guitar: www.geocities.com/Nashville/1520
piano & keyyboard: www.danskmusik.com/dmfbook/selskab/html/henning_kock.html www.festmusik.dk/henning_kock.html
and for musical instrument products wholesale (to dealers): www.henningkmusic.subnet.dk

------------------
[This message was edited by Henning Kock on 19 August 2001 at 10:21 AM.][This message was edited by Henning Kock on 19 August 2001 at 10:23 AM.]

Matthieu Leschemelle · Post by **Matthieu Leschemelle** » 19 Aug 2001 9:23 am

If you want to print the tied notes in the tablature as in the notation, there is no problem: just check the correponding option in Options -> Printing.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 19 Aug 2001 9:39 pm

Is it possible to have different TAB options for the same musical phrase ?
On the steel one can play the exact same combinations of notes in usually 3 or 4 different places. Each one has a different sound or feel that is significant to musical expression.

Bob

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 19 Aug 2001 10:25 pm

Yes Bob, Regardless of where on the fretboard you choose to place a phrase, lick, or chord, the program will print the right notes.

You just enter the numbers (making adjustments for pedals or levers) and the notes automatically pop into place.

Or you can enter the notes and the tablature will automatically pop into place. If you do it that way, the program usually places the tab in a location that you don't want, so you just delete the tab and enter it where you want it.

------------------
www.dougbsteel.com

Rainer Hackstaette · Post by **Rainer Hackstaette** » 20 Aug 2001 2:15 am

I just installed the registered version and the possibilities of this program are awesome!

I have, however, some suggestions for changes and additional features:

1. Could the permanent sliding into the pedals be taken out again? The playback via MIDI often gets the hickups and plays wrong notes, even though the musical notation displays the right ones. (I followed all the setup instructions, so I THINK I have the correct configuration in the OPTIONS filecard.) For the effect "pushing into" the pedals, couldn´t the "grace note option" be used?

2. The program should "know" which pedal changes are valid for which string, and refuse a wrong entry (with a warning "ping") - so that "A" can only be put on strings 5 or 10, and NOT on any other. It would help eliminate misprints.

3. There is no way (that I found) to put in additional pedals/levers in the NOTE/PITCH CHANGE box. There are 10 changes now - there should be more.

4. In the same box: Only TWO symbols (letters/numbers) can be used to name a change. I would like to name a change "B+G" for the split on string 6. Or "(4)", "(5)", "(6)", "(7)", "(8)" for the C6 pedals.

5. The knee "F" seems to be fixed on "-1". I want it to be "+1", and I have to change it manually every time I type the F. Am I doing something wrong?

6. The number of strings for the PSG should be extended to 13 and 14 for the "bigger" universals.

7. Right now, a pedal change can only EITHER raise OR lower. For pedals/knees that do both (e.g. some C6 pedals) I would have to use 2 different letters/numbers - e.g. if I want to RAISE the first string by +1 and LOWER the sixth by -2.

8. Would it be possible to have several user-defined pedal setups (like our copedent charts), so that the pedal changes were fixed to the corresponding string, and the program would "know" if it is a RAISE or a LOWER?

9. How about some shortcut to the pedals and knees via the function keys F1 to F12, maybe in combination with SHIFT or CTRL or ALT or AltGr? The E9-pedal "A" could be SHIFT-F1, the C6-pedal "(4)" could be CTRL-F1. That would give some 24 pedals per neck. Adequate, don´t you think?

10. Could I have "multiple TABs"? PSG plus GUITAR plus BASS (or whatever) one under the other, with syncronized timing and different assignable sounds and MIDI channels? That way a complete conductor´s lead sheet could be tabbed out and played back via MIDI.

11. The music notation is often not enharmonically correct, e.g. an Ab major chord shows as G#-C-D#, which is hard to read. Can I change the notation WITHOUT changing the TAB?

Mind you, I´m NOT complaining - I really think the program is the best I´ve seen so far.

Best regards,
Rainer

------------------
Remington D 10 8/8, Sierra Crown D 10 gearless 8/8, Session 400 LTD

[This message was edited by Rainer Hackstaette on 20 August 2001 at 03:18 AM.]

MUSICO · Post by **MUSICO** » 20 Aug 2001 6:50 am

Matthieu

That last post has some very good suggestions....but I think a question is in order. ¿Do you know how a copedant works?

It is the chart that shows each pedal and what strings it raises and lowers. If not we will have to give you a crash course in Pedal Steel Guitar.

Great work as always Matthieu.

Jeremy Williams
Gandia Valencia
Spain

Roy Thomson · Post by **Roy Thomson** » 20 Aug 2001 11:44 am

Rainer has hit on a point that is very important.
Tabledit should give us a tuning chart.
We should have the option to enter our tuning with our individual pedal/knee lever set up along with the corresponding pitch changes. It should provide for up to 14 strings.
ClicTab has this feature.
I like what Tabledit is doing and I buy it...but so far everything I have seen is geared to standard E9th. There are many tunings out there for steel guitar with different pedal knee lever set-ups. The approach must be more universal.
I am not being critical but Rainer again ..does have a good point.

Matthieu Leschemelle · Post by **Matthieu Leschemelle** » 20 Aug 2001 12:50 pm

Doug:

When you insert a note from the notation the note is rarely on the right fret.

To move a note upwards or downwards across the neck of the instrument (in order to adjust the fingering), select it and press [Ctrl]+[NumPad +] (to move toward the bass) or [Ctrl]+[NumPad -] (to move toward the treble). This can also be done with the mouse via the "Tools" palette. The fret position is automatically increased or decreased to correspond to the pitch value of the original note.

BTW, did you try the fingerboard window? It makes easy to see all the possible position for one given note. Just make an extended selection including the note and wonder...

Rainer:

I just installed the registered version and the possibilities of this program
are awesome!

I have, however, some suggestions for changes and additional features:

1. Could the permanent sliding into the pedals be taken out again? The
playback via MIDI often gets the hickups and plays wrong notes, even though
the musical notation displays the right ones. (I followed all the setup
instructions, so I THINK I have the correct configuration in the OPTIONS
filecard.) For the effect "pushing into" the pedals, couldn´t the "grace note
option" be used?

You must check the "Solo Predefined Instrument" advanced option in order to get a correct playback even with simultaneous slides.

2. The program should "know" which pedal changes are valid for which string,
and refuse a wrong entry (with a warning "ping") - so that "A" can only be
put on strings 5 or 10, and NOT on any other. It would help eliminate
misprints.

Sorry, but I won't do this. A TablEdit user is supposed to know what he is doing. Even for guitar tablature, TablEdit doesn't make any control on what the user is entering. But it should allow him to do everything what he wants. This is my basic philosophy. Up to now I did not find any waluable reason to change

3. There is no way (that I found) to put in additional pedals/levers in the
NOTE/PITCH CHANGE box. There are 10 changes now - there should be more.

I could give to you 15 strings. But why not to redefine an unused string like 'J' if you need it for a special tune?

4. In the same box: Only TWO symbols (letters/numbers) can be used to name a
change. I would like to name a change "B+G" for the split on string 6. Or
"(4)", "(5)", "(6)", "(7)", "(8)" for the C6 pedals.

No problem for a three char string. It will be in the next update (v260 a4)

5. The knee "F" seems to be fixed on "-1". I want it to be "+1", and I have
to change it manually every time I type the F. Am I doing something wrong?

No it's my mistake

It will be fixed. Same problem for "G".

6. The number of strings for the PSG should be extended to 13 and 14 for the
"bigger" universals.

Unfortunately, this is impossible in a near future. But v3.00 will allow up to 16 strings.

7. Right now, a pedal change can only EITHER raise OR lower. For pedals/knees
that do both (e.g. some C6 pedals) I would have to use 2 different
letters/numbers - e.g. if I want to RAISE the first string by +1 and LOWER
the sixth by -2.

Same reply as for 3. The "H", "I" and "J" text strings can be redefined.

8. Would it be possible to have several user-defined pedal setups (like our
copedent charts), so that the pedal changes were fixed to the corresponding
string, and the program would "know" if it is a RAISE or a LOWER?

Definitively no. TablEdit doesnt need to know that. See reply #2.

When I say TE manages PSG tablatures. I mean it offers the way to print professional looking scores and to get a quite realistic midi playback. That's all and IMHO it is not null...

See for example the accordion or the dulcimer players. TablEdit allows them to create tablature for their instrument. It's the only program allowing this. They are happy with it and they never asked for a "tutoring" tool.

You must understand TablEdit is not dedicated to guitar, to PSG, to baroque lute, to fiddle or to any other instrument. My goal is to make the universal tablature editor. For this purpose, I'm ready to add the NECESSARY features to manage any instrument. But I wont go beyond.

9. How about some shortcut to the pedals and knees via the function keys F1
to F12, maybe in combination with SHIFT or CTRL or ALT or AltGr? The E9-pedal
"A" could be SHIFT-F1, the C6-pedal "(4)" could be CTRL-F1. That would give
some 24 pedals per neck. Adequate, don´t you think?

Sorry no. Most short keys are already used by generic features. BTW it would take longer to learn such shortkeys that to select the desired effect in the note pitch dialogue [Ctrl]+[H].

10. Could I have "multiple TABs"? PSG plus GUITAR plus BASS (or whatever) one
under the other, with syncronized timing and different assignable sounds and
MIDI channels? That way a complete conductor´s lead sheet could be tabbed out
and played back via MIDI.

Obviously. You can create up to seven modules

You should download some .tef files from the Free Tablature Archive. It would give you a more complete view on TablEdit possibilities.

11. The music notation is often not enharmonically correct, e.g. an Ab major
chord shows as G#-C-D#, which is hard to read. Can I change the notation
WITHOUT changing the TAB?

Yes. Why should anything be changed in the tab?

If necessary, you can force the display of a specific alteration for any given note (i.e. display an Ab instead of a G#) in the musical staff. Simply select the note to be affected and apply the desired alteration from the Notes palette, the {Notes} menu or by using the keyboard shortcuts [d] (sharp) or (flat). The note pitch of the primary note is automatically changed in the stave to reflect the alteration and the selected accidental is displayed. The note can be restored to it's original value by applying the [=] (natural) accidental.

Dayton Osland · Post by **Dayton Osland** » 20 Aug 2001 2:33 pm

Here is a copy of an e-mail I just sent to Keith at Tableedit.

Hi Keith,

I downloaded the 2.60 version of Tableedit (32) based on instructions in the Pedal Steel Guitar Forum.

AS with any program like this, it took a few tries to get the hang of it. But now I am doing at least ok.

Two points:

1. In the pitch Change section. It would be very nice to have the number of semitone change tied to the letter that appears. In editing Pedal Steel tab a B modified always sharps the tone 1 semitone, an A sharps the tone 2 semitowns and a D or E flat the note 1 semitone. It would also be nice to limit the A to strings 5 and 10, the B to 3 and 6 and so forth but I expect that is beyond the range of the program.

2. I had a problem in moving a chord. Sometimes when I thought I was making a horizontal move, I also wound up moving it down and lost the bottom chord member. When I move the incorrectly positioned chord up on the strings I had permanently lost the bottom chord member.

I like the ability to highlight a string (horizontally) and apply a pitch change to several notes at once.

I expect that I would like to get a registered copy, but I would like to send a money order. Do you have a "snail mail" procedure for registration?

Thank you,
------------------------

This program is pretty impressive. I've used Noteworthy for keyboard/horn work and the two are similar in the amount of work necessary to do a piece of music.

I'm sure I'll have other issues as I get more into it.

Dayton

ebb · Post by **ebb** » 20 Aug 2001 5:25 pm

can someone post instructions on how to input notes and get accompanying tab.