Copying pedal steel licks on 6 string guitar

Algernon · Post by **Algernon** » 3 Oct 1999 8:28 pm

Any suggestions on how to do this more effectively? My band doesn't have a steel player. I'm the lead guitar player. We do a lot of country and I have to try and sound as much like a pedal steel as possible.

I hear a lot of 6's and 9's in steel chords. Any suggestions on how to think or what to do?

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 3 Oct 1999 9:39 pm

Whatever you do, don't hire a steel player.

Algernon · Post by **Algernon** » 4 Oct 1999 6:53 am

Earnest, that's an interesting comment. I sure wish you'd expand on that a little. I don't even know any steel guitar players but I sure do admire what they sound like. I'll bet you've got a fascinating reason for your post. Please share.

seldomfed · Post by **seldomfed** » 4 Oct 1999 10:50 am

Algernon - Look for instruction books on the subject. Many have tapes or CD's to help you learn. Get one of the new Fender Tele's with the 'b-bender' installed! Get a vol. pedal for the guitar. The new Roland MIDI guitar synths help you fake it out some too. Watch an Albert Lee instruction video - check one out from your local music store. Ray Flacke (sp? sorry Ray) has some good tapes I used once. (good picker) Lot's of folks have come up with some convincing steel licks on the guitar - but nothing sounds like the steel! That's why I switched from 6 to 10

Sources:
www.elderly.com for books and tapes
Scotty's (search yahoo)
search yahoo

- chris

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Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"We can't afford to let Nature Run Wild"

John Steele · Post by **John Steele** » 4 Oct 1999 11:15 am

Algernon,
Somewhere on the web is a site called "Clublickit", put up by a fellow named Kevin Ryan. K. Ryan and a friend put out a video some years ago called "stealin' from the steel", which was about playing steel licks on 6 string. I imagine info on the video would be available from that site. Hope that helps.
Now.. with that tip comes some unsolicited advice, perhaps relating to our friend Earnest's post. The guitarist in the band I steel with bought this video and learned some licks. Within a month I was ready to kill Kevin Ryan.

It wasn't really his fault though, that the guitarist didn't understand to lay off these licks when there was a steel player onstage. It's really irritating. We have thousands of dollars worth of mechanisms in our instrument to ensure that the pulls come off in tune, and the job should be left to the steeler in that situation (imho). However, this doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun to know how to do when there isn't a steeler around.
In the end, I decided that it wasn't Kevin Ryan's fault, so I'm arranging to have the lead player mysteriously disappear instead.
-John
*edit* P.S. Also amongst our little group here is a frightening lead guitarist named Steve Piticco, who comes from up here in the bush

He's the best I've ever heard at simulating steel parts. Nobody knows more about it than him. Steve?[This message was edited by John Steele on 10-04-99]

Craig Allen · Post by **Craig Allen** » 4 Oct 1999 1:47 pm

Algernon. Why don't you consider getting a Steel Guitar, and not worry about doing steel licks on a standard. Then you can swap out.

As for Earnest. I'm with you. Hire a steel player. But if they can't find one, or afford one, then it's got to be left to the guitarist to cover the spot.

But I am truly on the side of helping anybody that can benifit from some advice, so get off of the Soap Box, and help him out.

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Ingo Mamczak · Post by **Ingo Mamczak** » 4 Oct 1999 6:55 pm

<pre>
__________________________________________________________________
E 1_______5_______________________________________3______9____________
B 2_________5___________________________________5__________8_/(10)____
G 3___________4_/(6)___________2_/(4)_____4_/(6)______________________
D 4___________________________5_______________________________________
A 5_________________________5_________________________________________
E 6___________________________________________________________________

The numbers are the frets to play in , and the /(N) are the note to
bend the string up to .
</pre>

Hi Algernon ,
These are four " forms " which I use a lot . I don't have a guitar here
with me , so I hope they will sound right .
In the first lick , I keep strings 1 and 2 barred with my little finger , and bend the G string with my other fingers . In the second lick , I'm going for the " E shape " , keeping the 4th and 5th strings pressed , and bending the G string with my second finger .
The third lick is for a 7th , I bend the G string with my second and third finger , press the B string with my little finger , and press the E string with my index finger .
The last lick , I press the first string with my little finger, and then bend the B string with the others . I use a pic , and my three fingers for picking .
It helps me to " see " the shape of the chord I'm playing around .
The only thing I could really advise on how to think or what to do , in my opinion , is to listen to real Country music.

Ingo.

Earnest Bovine · Post by **Earnest Bovine** » 4 Oct 1999 7:20 pm

Yeah, I was poking fun at you for trying to get the steel sound without a steel player.
If you don't know any players, and you like the sound, you should consider getting one yourself. That's what got all of us in the trouble that we're in.

Algernon · Post by **Algernon** » 5 Oct 1999 7:07 am

I appreciate all the great advice and tips guys. I can't wait to try them all out. Wish me luck!

BTW, how much do steels usually go for? If I were to consider buying one, what would be a reasonable ballpark price? Hundreds? Thousands? Does the maunfacturer make a difference?

How long does it generally take to become profficient on steel, if you're already profficient on 6 string that is? Does knowing how to play 6 string help or hinder when switching?

Craig Allen · Post by **Craig Allen** » 5 Oct 1999 8:13 am

All good questions. You should be able to pick up a good used guitar from upwards of $500.00. Keep looking at the buy/sell part of the forum. Or, you could go to www.steelguitar.com. (Home page for Carter Steel Guitars.) Carters home page has a "fore sale" section, as well as their new guitars. You can find some good deals there, too. there are also a few builders here at the forum, that post regularly. Ed Naylor comes to mind, along with Bobby Bowman, and a few others.

Emmons, Emmons/Lashley LeGrande, Sho-Bud, Franklin, & MSA are a few of the names to look for. There are many, many other brands, but these are the most accepted brands.( I didn't mean to leave anybody out, so don't jump on me, guys.)

There are several configurations, that run the gammet from single 10, through double 12, and many custom configurations, that include 14 string set ups, as well as the older 6 & 8 string stuff.
I would say that many of us play D10's, or S10's. A D10 would be set up with an E9, and a C6 tuning, and the S10s would be E9.

For starters, I would probably hunt down a good single 10, with at least 3 pedals, and no less than 3 levers. NOT A STUDENT MODEL!!!!! If you wind up with a D10, so much the better, you probably won't outgrow it.

I have always played an MSA, and I swear by them. I feel they are the best guitar on the planet. But...... Many of the other folks around here play Emmons; Emmons LeGrande; Mullen, and too many others to list, and they all feel the same about their guitars as well.
I'm sure now that I've jumped in with the MSA slant, a few of the guys will jump in and tell what they think.

I don't know off hand the links, but you could contact Scotty's music in St. Louis, or visit Bobbe Seymours site, as well as others. Bobbe Seymour usualy has a good selection of used and new guitars, and he's not that far from you. He's in Nashville.

I played Tele. for years. I am sure that what I know about guitar, as well as music in general has helped me learn how to play a Steel Guitar. The problem that I've found with the steel, is that it is ADDICTIVE!!!!
It won't be long before you forget that you have that standard guitar sittin' in the case, in the closet!!!

I also just remembered that there is a very nice MSA for sale at the Buy/Sell section of the forum. You may have to scroll down to find it, but it's there, with a picture. And the price was right.

I hope that I helped, and I hope that I don't catch hell for leaving anyone out. There are just too many variables, and builders; dealers; and brands to list, with out forgetting someone or something.

Good Luck
Craig Allen

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Dave Horch · Post by **Dave Horch** » 6 Oct 1999 5:34 am

Algernon.

You might be close enough to Billy Coopers steel shop in Orange, VA. It would be worth your time to stop in and have a look around. His web site can be found at www.billycoopersmusic.com/.

I can tell you're as curious as I was a few years back, and I decided I just had to have one of those steel guitars. I'm very glad I decided to jump in. What a blast! Yes, your 6 string experience will help a lot.

BTW, Bill's web site explains that "Billy Cooper began playing the steel guitar in the mid 1960s after a fellow musician suggested that he go ahead and get a pedal steel instead of struggling to get pedal steel sounds out of his Fender Strat. Having taken that advice, he never looked back"

Sounds like you in the future...

Go for it!

-Dave

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Mullen D-10 (one smoooooth puppy!)

[This message was edited by Dave Horch on 10-06-99][This message was edited by Dave Horch on 10-06-99]

Jss · Post by **Jss** » 9 Oct 1999 10:58 am

The trick I think to copying steel on a lead guitar is to not bend. If you listen to steel players, they are not pushing those pedals slowly most of the time, but usually pretty quickly... remember- the whole time the note is being bent it is out of tune. Use mostly hammer ons and pull-offs. There will be times you need to bend but not as much as you think. Also you'll need a volume pedal. Don't use it doing lots of swells but rather use it to add sustain to your phrases. When the decay reduces your volume just turn it up enough to keep the level constant thru the phrase.It's really easy to try doing steel parts and end up sounding like a southern rocker. It can be done to get you by, but there's NOTHING like the real thing. Good luck!

Algernon · Post by **Algernon** » 26 Oct 1999 1:46 pm

Thanks for all the great tips guys. It has helped a lot. I think I'm actually getting better at it. I'll never sound as good as a real pedal but I sure do like the way you all make them sound. Sweet!!!!!!!

Chris Walke · Post by **Chris Walke** » 27 Oct 1999 7:56 am

I'd suggest listening to a couple albums that got me started on the simulating steel sound:

Joe Henry: "Short Man's Room," especially a track called Sault Saint Marie. Great introduction to that style, performed by Gary Louris of the Jayhawks. Listening to that song helped me learn.

Also the Jayhawks first album "Blue Earth" I think thats the title. Might be hard to find.

Walker · Post by **Walker** » 30 Oct 1999 8:24 pm

The best way to improvise steel licks on the 6 string guitar is to look at a tab chart for an E9th tuning and figure it out. I have no clue how to play steel, but I have a Super Pro II on lay-away at the local pawn shop. I printed a E9 tuning chart and so far have figured out half the songs steel part on "Sweethearts of the Rodeo" album by the Byrds on my tele. This really kills the crowd at the local music store.

D Nemarnik · Post by **D Nemarnik** » 31 Oct 1999 11:26 am

Ya know Algernon they're right about the addiction thing.
I started playing a little steel after an accident realy screwed up my left hand.and I couln't finger for'bout 9 months . my aunt had an old fender 8 string pedal that she gave me to cheer me up.so she showed me some songs parts off of old buck owens&charlie pride albums she had and I learned 'em just to make her happy.
well now a little later in life I've got more than 30 six stings ranging from vintage a 335 and tele to some pretty scary rock guitars and enough marshalls to fill any stage.(but that's another story). And I swear to you when I'm at home i don't even look at a six string anymore.that damn MSA I just bought sits there in the corner of my humble studio and laughs at me!so now my wife makes me use headphones after midnight!
listen to these guys they're good........

rick w · Post by **rick w** » 2 Nov 1999 8:13 am

Hi Algernon;Go to the buy and sell on the FORUM,I have a message. Thanks Rick Worley

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Algernon · Post by **Algernon** » 3 Nov 1999 8:26 pm

Hmmmm...... mighty tempting there Rick.

Algernon · Post by **Algernon** » 3 Nov 1999 8:26 pm

Hmmmm...... mighty tempting there Rick.

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MLP · Post by **MLP** » 5 Nov 1999 9:32 pm

Hey Algernon,

You've gotten some great info in this thread!! So what are you going to do, keep improvising on your 6 string, or make the move up to a true Steel Guitar??

Either way, Good Luck

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Enjoy,
Michael

Learn from the mistakes of others, Life is too short to make them all yourself!!

randy · Post by **randy** » 9 Nov 1999 8:46 am

I saw a band last month that had a good lead guitar player sitting at an Emmons and switching back and forth pretty seemlessly. It irritated me real bad at first, (why not just hire a REAL STEEL player), but then after a couple of rides I realized this dude is a MUSICIAN. I spent the rest of the night tryin' to steal licks. Plus I talked with him during a break and he said he played both because he loved both. It had nothing to do with economics. What do ya think of that

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