Stevens Bar question

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 24 Nov 2002 12:04 pm

I just got my first Dobro and I picked up a Stevens bar for it. The playing surface of the Stevens isn't smooth like my other steel bars, it's got some ridges along it's length. Is this due to bad machining, or is intentional so that vibrato will excite the strings? I've seen some other dobro bars like the Shubb that are very smooth. Any suggestions?

Brad Sarno

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 24 Nov 2002 4:01 pm

Brad, you'd probably find the Scheerhorn bar more to your liking. I used the Stevens forever, but got a Tipton bar, and I love it. Now, if you could find an old Stevens bar, it's more apt to be smoother.

R. L. Jones · Post by **R. L. Jones** » 24 Nov 2002 7:33 pm

Dont like to say things aboutother peoples products, but thats why I dont use Stevens bars. They are cheap, cheap made , cheap price.For a few more dollars you can get a "Shub Pearce" It is smooth ,beautiful, has one rounded end and one sharp end.

R. L.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 25 Nov 2002 10:38 pm

Stevens bars are not for me !

Jack Byrd · Post by **Jack Byrd** » 26 Nov 2002 7:08 am

Here is what Jerry says about the bars in question.

Stevens Bar – The Stevens bar is an absolute piece of junk. The dobro players use them because a dobro player can get away with murder, it doesn’t make any difference what they play with. Players who use them lay their index finger on the trough on top of the bar and all that does is immediately put your hand in a position that if you want to make a quick slant you have got to turn your whole hand and that finger and by then it’s too late and you can’t do it fast enough and you can’t do it accurately. I have had students come to me with these Stevens Bars and I tell them to take the bar to a machine shop and drill a hole about half an inch from either end and use it for a fishing sinker out here in the ocean because it ain’t worth a d--- to play steel guitar with as far as I am concerned. Anyone using one should get rid of it because there is too much you can’t do with it and nothing you can do with it.

The Shubb-Pearse bar is much the same. They are trying to make a Stevens bar into a bullet nose but the trough and finger laying in it is still the problem. You do not lay that finger on top of the bar, it immobilizes the whole operation going into slants.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 26 Nov 2002 8:07 am

The best bar I ever bought for playing lap steel and/or dobro was a tapered bar (it is fatter on the butt end that at the nose). I played one so much that the chroming started coming off but I still use one that is in good shape. It really fits the hand nice and is ideal for slant positions.
Erv[This message was edited by Erv Niehaus on 26 November 2002 at 08:08 AM.]

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 26 Nov 2002 8:15 am

Ally · Post by **Ally** » 26 Nov 2002 8:16 am

The words of somewhat who obviously hates dobros don't really cut it when it comes to criticising instruments/styles he doesn't even play. Whatever JB's standing is in the Hawaiian music scene, it's absolutely zero in the bluegrass scene ... I remember when that post was put on the Jerry Douglas message board; didn't go down too well!

Shubb Pierce No 2 is a great bar for Dobro.

Works well for lap steel, too

[This message was edited by Ally on 26 November 2002 at 08:16 AM.]

Post by **Brad Bechtel** » 26 Nov 2002 9:02 am

I've tried to use Stevens-type bars, and they just don't appeal to me. I find the bullet bars (like the Broz-O-Phonic made by Latch Lake) fit my playing style better than a bullet bar, even on resophonic guitar.
Pete Grant uses a 12 string steel guitar bar on his reso, and sounds just fine with it. Whatever works for you.

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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

D Schubert · Post by **D Schubert** » 26 Nov 2002 9:38 am

Everybody's got their favorites. I use a $40 Scheerhorn with my Dobro, and I have a couple of $15 Dunlop "Lap Dawg" bars -- same shape but a little lighter -- as backups. These bars have the right ergonomic shape for bluegrass -- playing lots of hammer-ons & pull-offs while in a cock-eyed standing position. You can always put your old Stevens bar in a sock, and keep in your car to use as "personal protection"

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 26 Nov 2002 9:52 am

Auldridge still uses a Stevens bar---Lousy tone, huh. And slants are possible with ANY bar, you just may have to learn to move your finger. Or, find another place on the neck where you don't need a slant.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 26 Nov 2002 1:07 pm

I agree with Ally, the Shubb Pierce No. 2 is perfect for bluegrass, country, and blues Dobro: very smooth, good weight, slant on one end if you like that, and bullet on the other end if you like that. I don't like the slant end because it gets caught on the strings when I move between the high and low strings on rolls. The bullet works fine for hammers and taps, and can be used as Jerry Byrd likes (in spite of what he says in the above quote) to do a slant that frets two strings at one fret and a third string at a lower or higher fret. It is also slightly cut-away at both ends to facilitate quick slants.

The Shubb-Pierce No. 1 is too low and cramps my hand. Bars without finger grooves may be fine for electric steel playing, in which open strings and hammers, etc. are not often used, but grooves are essential for fast handling of the bar in bluegrass and blues. Old timers like the Stevens bar because it was all there was in the old days and they are used to it. They are crude (the bars, not the old-timers), have no bullet, and get wear grooves quickly. Sacred Steelers (Gospel/blues), who like bluegrass players do a lot of open string hammers and pull-offs, use grooved bars like the Shubb for straight and pedal-steel.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 26 Nov 2002 7:35 pm

I once had a student who had an arthritic problem, couldn't hold the round bar, kept dropping it. He took it to a machine shop and had a ring attached which swiveled. The ring went on his index finger....you figure the rest. While it worked for him (in a manner of speaking), I wouldn't recommend it for the average steeler by a long shot!

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 26 Nov 2002 10:11 pm

Well I started this thread so I thought I'd comment again. Since I'm a total beginer on dobro and a medium novice on steel, I'm open to all the suggestions. My biggest gripe with the Stevens is that the machining quality was crappy, not smooth and had rough edges too. Aesthetically didn't appeal to me. I went to the local shop and swapped for a Dunlop Lap Dawg and I like that one a whole lot better. The ergonomics are better and the playing surface is quite smooth. It feels better to play with it. I've also got a little Curtis-Chisholm Twister for lap steel. I think Byrd would approve of that bar. I see how the bluegrassers like the dobro style bars as they're so easy to lift and hammer on with. I'll keep messin with both. Thanks so much to everyone for their input.

Brad Sarno
'32 Dobro/'66 Emmons/'69 Emmons/'69 Twin

Michael T. Hermsmeyer · Post by **Michael T. Hermsmeyer** » 28 Nov 2002 12:55 am

Brad, I use a 20 year old Stevens Bar for my Dobro playing and I get by just fine. I also have a new one which is considerably lower in quality. It it also machined differently with rounder corners on the front and back of the top of the bar. I don't like the way it feels when I slant, it feels like it wants to slip out of my hand. My old one is more square and therefore more stable, or perhaps I am just more used to it. The Stevens bars do have a rough texture and finish to them, but sometimes I desire that "nastiness" that I get from it, especially during a fast vibrato. Kind of a delta blues thing. I also have a Shubb-Pearse original bar that is much smoother. Of course it doesn't give me as much of that 'Nasty Gritty" sound. It is shaped similar to the stevens, but the round side it very similar to a full length bullet bar if it was cut into quarters. I use it for Melobar because it covers all 10 strings and works very well for me. I have not had the opportunity to try a Scheerhorn or Tipton, but I would bet that I would love it. Last I checked, they were more around $80.00. Just don't have that layin' around. I think I will get a Lap Dawg soon, if I can ever find one. I thought I saw one at the convention, but when I went back to try it, it was gone.
Good luck with whatever you get, let me know how you like the Lap Dawg.
Oh... and since you say that you are a beginner and medium novice... If you ever get discouraged and decide to sell all those nice vintage instruments, LOL....... Cwall Mee, Heh Heh, LOL.
Michael T.
P.S. I feel I should also mention that I use only BJS Bars for my electric steel playing and they are the best feeling and smoothest bars I have ever tried. I would never use a Stevens bar on a lap steel, pedal steel or any electric steel guitar. So I do understand Doctor Jerry Byrd feelings. Just too nasty. But for some reason I like them on acoustic Dobro.

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UTILITY MAN PRODUCTIONS
'73 EMMONS D10 FATBACK, '92 EMMONS D10 LASHLEY LEGRANDE,
'85 DOBRO 60DS, '95 DOBRO F60S,
'95 MELOBAR CUSTOM, 1955 FENDER TRIPLE NECK STRINGMASTER. EVANS, FENDER, PEAVEY,
and MESA BOOGIE Amps.

[This message was edited by Michael T. Hermsmeyer on 28 November 2002 at 01:02 AM.]

Michael T. Hermsmeyer · Post by **Michael T. Hermsmeyer** » 6 Dec 2002 12:03 am

OK, I just got a Lap Dawg bar and I am convinced that the "Tipton" or "Scheerhorn" style bar is the way to go. Slanting will take some adjustment, but this bar will do pull offs like no Stevens could ever think of, unless of course you are Mike Auldridge. I will probably swap back and forth for a while just to make sure, but this is a very nice bar. Anyone who has not tried one yet should give it a whirl. Shop around, I bought mine at the Gibson Bluegrass Showcase in Nashville and probably paid to much. But they have been hard for me to find and they had several, so I splurged. I do wish it was about a half inch longer, but the contact area is very close to the length of the Stevens, just the grip is shorter. Like I said, it will just take some getting used to. Thanks,
Michael T.

------------------
UTILITY MAN PRODUCTIONS
'73 EMMONS D10 FATBACK, '92 EMMONS D10 LASHLEY LEGRANDE,
'85 DOBRO 60DS, '95 DOBRO F60S,
'95 MELOBAR CUSTOM, 1955 FENDER TRIPLE NECK STRINGMASTER. EVANS, FENDER, PEAVEY,
and MESA BOOGIE Amps.

D Schubert · Post by **D Schubert** » 6 Dec 2002 7:28 am

Michael T, the Scheerhorn bar is a little bit longer than the Lap Dawg. If I don't forget, I'll measure for you.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 6 Dec 2002 8:41 am

Like everything in the "steel" world, we are always searching for that holy grail of quintessential universal guitar, bar, and tuning, that will do everything. If anyone finds that, please let me know.

I've used the Stevens and then the SP2 which is a good "compromise" bar. At this point I'm using the Scheerhorn, which is very comfortable and really gives sharper hammers & pulls. I'm also using Jim Burden's bullet bar with a bit of a flat nose that he made for me. The two bars give me what I'm looking for depending what kind of music I'm playing, or attempting to play. The Burden bar is excellent for reverse slants.

Now if these two could only be made into one bar.....

[This message was edited by HowardR on 06 December 2002 at 08:46 AM.]

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 6 Dec 2002 6:00 pm

Here is another point of view. A different slant!

I like the Goodrich plastic matchbro bar. It is a round 7/8 bar meant for 10 string steel. Its purpose is to make a steel sound like a dobro. This bar plus the MatchBro do an ok job of imitating the sound of a dobro.

Well, turns out it has a great sound on a reso guitar. It is very light. Fast, easy slanting both ways. Since it is light and not slippery like steel, you can pick it up quickly.

I play nonpedal electric most of the time with a round steel bar. When I play my resophonics, using a round bar of the same dimensions is an easier transition.

I watched Jerry Douglas with AK and US one night from up close. I never saw a slant. The stevens type bar he was using is perfect for the music and style he plays.

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 6 Dec 2002 7:02 pm

I remember when that post was put on the Jerry Douglas message board; didn't go down too well!

yeah...

just don't shoot the messenger..

[This message was edited by HowardR on 06 December 2002 at 07:03 PM.]

Michael T. Hermsmeyer · Post by **Michael T. Hermsmeyer** » 7 Dec 2002 1:48 am

I have Jerry's instructional video that he made back in '89, I believe. He did demonstrate the slants but did say that he rarely uses them. He was still playing his R.Q.Jones Dobro, but his bar appeared to be the Tipton or Scheerhorn and he slanted just fine. I'll have to look at it again, but I really don't think J.D. would sound any different if he was using a cut off broomstick for a bar,

Michael T.

James Brown · Post by **James Brown** » 7 Dec 2002 3:48 am

I have made quite a few different shaped bars,the bluegrass people seem to like the non-bullet shaped bars.I can send you some pictures of the bars.Some people even use and like solid bronze with no plating.

D Schubert · Post by **D Schubert** » 7 Dec 2002 5:30 am

I play a lot of forward slants with my Scheerhorn bar, on a G-tuned Dobro, with no problems at all. Backward slants seem to be a little more difficult with the grooved bar, at least for me. The Scheerhorn bar is almost as heavy as a big, round PSG bar -- and the bottom radius is the same, so it shouldn't feel that alien to a round-bar guy.

The beveled ends help you play those single-note hammer-and-pull notes (ie, fiddle tunes and low-down banjo licks) close to the nut without hitting an adjacent string. Much cleaner-sounding than a round end, especially if you are standing up.

And don't forget that you have to hit those heavy-gage Dobro strings 2-3x as hard as PSG strings, or (a) you won't coax much tone out of the instrument, and (b) nobody will hear you between the D-28's and the banjo. Note: I use Beard Special 29's for G-tuning: 0.018" to 0.060". This more physical right-hand technique also requires more physical left-hand technique -- and the grooved bar is part of it.

But when I play PSG, I always use a big round bar, I can't imagine otherwise. And don't tell anybody, but I go "both ways" on a lap steel.

D Schubert · Post by **D Schubert** » 7 Dec 2002 5:39 am

The Lap Dawg bar measures 2-13/16" across the bottom length -- same as my Stevens bar. The Scheerhorn is just barely longer at 2-7/8" but I can feel the difference when I'm playing. Just eyeballin' it, the Lap Dawg has a slightly flatter (larger) radius across the bottom surface than the Scheerhorn.

R. L. Jones · Post by **R. L. Jones** » 7 Dec 2002 8:53 pm

Just from my observation .The stevens bars were pretty good, they were smooth. the ones I`ve looked at lately ,new ones are not smooth. Look a little rough.

One of the best players in our area ,wouldnt use anything else. I dont think he`s bought a new one though.

R. L.