Why Are There No Horseshoe Reissue P'ups?

Todd Weger · Post by **Todd Weger** » 9 Oct 2002 4:46 am

Or, maybe there are(?) I've been sitting here wondering about this, and mayber there ARE these out there, and I'm just showing my ignorance, in which case, my apopologies! But, about "THE" famous 1.5" horseshoe magnet: is it now IMPOSSIBLE to reproduce this same pickup? I'm guessing it must be, or somebody would be doing it by now.

Seems to me, reproductions of this p'up (or heck -- even the Frypan or pre-war Bakelite) could be EXACTLY reproduced. Or, maybe not?

I've played Fender's Relic repro Strats and Teles, and I have to say, it's VERY hard, if not downright near impossible to tell the difference between these and REAL vintage instruments. They got 'em right!

Is it simply an issue of market (or, in this case, lack thereof)? If there were enough of us hollering for repro's of these p'ups, would Mr. Lollar start building them?

Enquiring minds want to know!

TJW

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Todd James Weger/RD/RTD
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (C6, B11, E13); 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6); Melobar SLS lapsteel (open D); Chandler RH-4 Koa semi-hollow lapsteel (open G); Regal resonator (open G)

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 9 Oct 2002 7:33 am

Would the patent still be in effect?

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 9 Oct 2002 7:47 am

A friend of mine who works for the US patent office said that "utility patents" are only good for 20 Yrs (or less depending on when they were issued) ... so that ain't the problem.

I heard that a guy is makin' them from steel that is then magnetized and chrome plated ...

Alnico mags that large would require a "serious investment" to set up and manufacture ... thats what I have heard anyway.

Too bad Jason Lollar is so busy these days ... He told me he had a "prototype" for a version in mind ....

WOULDN"T THAT BE GREAT ... Maybe if enough show interest ....

COUNT ME IN !!!![This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 02 November 2002 at 09:51 AM.]

Jason Lollar · Post by **Jason Lollar** » 9 Oct 2002 9:17 am

Here is the deal, Rick makes a horse shoe "repro" but the shoes are just chrome plated and are not magnetic, Turner makes something similar where the shoes are not magnetic.
The original material used is no longer made as far as I know but along with another Forum member, we have made several with magnetized steel shoes but production is limited and the completed unit is fairly expensive and will likeley need recharged down the line.
I did go in another direction with an alternative that sounds similar, fairly high output with clarity and wide frequency response, the Chicago Steel pickup that Sage poked me with a stick to make at the right time soon after I designed it to produce which has no strap over the strings.
All in all its having the magnets made that makes the prodgect of reproducing the original Rick prohibitivley expensive.

[This message was edited by Jason Lollar on 09 October 2002 at 10:19 AM.]

Ray Montee · Post by **Ray Montee** » 9 Oct 2002 10:09 am

Jason ole buddy......... Question:
With so many collectors hanging these old Ricks, Gibsons and Fenders on their walls, never to be played again.....
What does that kind of electronic, magnetic, inactivity do to the pickup/operation.
Do they die? How long a life is typical?
Anything you might care to contribute about steel guitar pickups, useage, life expectancy, what can be done to prolong its life, etc., will be gratefully appreciated.

Danny Bates · Post by **Danny Bates** » 9 Oct 2002 10:34 am

This company sells a remagnetizer for less than $60
http://www.arborsci.com/Product_Pages/Magnetism/Magnetism_products.asp

John Tipka · Post by **John Tipka** » 9 Oct 2002 10:37 am

But, but, but I did see a "home-made Rick horseshoe pickup" this past weekend at the HSGA convention in Joliet.. The guitar was built for Duke Ching by Bill Creller. The pickup was wound by Jason Lollar. But then Bill bent a horseshoe from 4340 steel, magnetized it and chrome plated it and added it to Jason's pickup. The assembly looks like that of a Rick....Beautiful looking as well as sounding great. So it's not as hard as you think..
BTW Bill is the guy who also built the great sounding 7 string Rick Frypan for Bobby Ingano... And of course, the HSGA convention is the place where you see some of the Rickenbacher Frypans that were originally owned by Dick McIntire and the other great steel players of the 1930's and 40's. Dirk Vogel, Hal Smith, Don Sweatman, Mike Scott, etc all play the "originals"

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 9 Oct 2002 11:41 am

John Tipka, You are so right about the HSGA convention... Vintage guitars everywhere. Amazing players. Relaxed, open atmosphere.

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website

[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 09 October 2002 at 12:49 PM.][This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 09 October 2002 at 12:51 PM.]

Kerry Wood · Post by **Kerry Wood** » 9 Oct 2002 11:51 am

In addition to what John Tipka has to say, I read in the Aug 2002 issue of Tonequest Report an interview with Jason Lollar. He said that he has a prototype of a Horseshoe pickup with real horseshoe magnets, but that it hasn't gotten any farther than that. Maybe he just needs some encouragement or interst from a builder with an interest in them? BTW the article was a good read. There was alot of discussion about lapsteel pickups and what makes them so special.

Kerry

Gerald Ross · Post by **Gerald Ross** » 9 Oct 2002 5:00 pm

At last weekend's Hawaiian Steel Guitar Association's (HSGA) convention at Joliet, IL, Bill Creller delivered this eight string steel guitar to Duke Ching.

The guitar's official model name is "The DC 'Pila' Frypan". Duke Ching commissioned Bill to build the guitar.

Bill did a fantastic job on the entire instrument. Bill built the pickup's magnets from scratch (yes they are magnetized) and Jason Lollar wound the pickup. He also built the custom tweed case. Bill Creller is a very talented guy (he builds tweed amps too).

I keep telling you guys, you gotta come to the Joliet convention...

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Gerald Ross
'Northwest Ann Arbor, Michigan's King Of The Hawaiian Steel Guitar'

Gerald's Fingerstyle Guitar Website

[This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 09 October 2002 at 07:36 PM.]

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 9 Oct 2002 5:51 pm

WOW !!!

I said:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
I heard that a guy is makin' them from steel that is then magnetized and chrome plated ...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess Bill is the "guy"

I want a Harmos steel with a set of those "Shoes" .[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 02 November 2002 at 09:53 AM.]

Jason Lollar · Post by **Jason Lollar** » 11 Oct 2002 9:59 am

Bill Creller is indeed the "guy". He did a pro job too huh?
I have a set, even the plate under the shoes is totally clean. Very nice and he knows the specs, they match with every drawing I have made of every different Rick set that has come through my shop.
Between the two of us I am sure we have specs for any rick steel pickup ever produced, including some oddballs.
Robert R. played his Harmos for me yesterday and I would have to say they sound really good with the pickup sets used right now, I dont think you need a HS on one!

Why do they go bad?
The magnets can go bad if they get dropped or heated or mishandled, the insulation on the wire can degrade and you will loose power and high or low end, the bakelite bobbins can degrade and short out the coil.
I am sure there are alot of Ricks out there that have coils that only partially work and dont sound as good as they should.[This message was edited by Jason Lollar on 11 October 2002 at 11:04 AM.][This message was edited by Jason Lollar on 11 October 2002 at 11:07 AM.]

Sage · Post by **Sage** » 11 Oct 2002 11:47 am

Howdy Rick- that would be cool but I don't know if it would fit with the frame clearance that I have. I actually started talking with Jason about that a year ago, but his other pickups are so good that it didn't seem neccecary to climb that big R&D hill at the time. When we do a "shoe", I want it to be like my '38 Slingerland- which I think sounds better than the Rick (sorry to blaspheme

). It has little pole magnets inside the horseshoe, wound in opposite directions to cancel hum (now that sounds expensive...).
Jason- Cool that you got to spend time with Robert R! I heard that you are fixing him up with new P'ups for his other guitars. BTW, the ones you made for his Harmos PSG sound absolutely great- huge tone. I'd better not keep going about that or I'll get evicted from my favorite "no peddlers" section.
T. Sage Harmos
Harmos Steel Guitars[This message was edited by Sage on 11 October 2002 at 12:48 PM.]