Nationals: New Yorker VS Grand Console

Andy Zynda · Post by **Andy Zynda** » 21 Sep 2002 9:15 pm

I don't get it. Consistently, National New Yorkers (single 6) go for as much $ or more than a Grand Console (Dual

. The pickups appear to be the same design, just 6 versus 8 poles.
I have a new yorker that I inherited from my Pop, and I have a Grand Console on the way. The 'Yorker sounds like a million, I sure hope the 'Console sounds as good.
Is there a secret I dont know?
-andy-

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51 Fender T-8, National New Yorker, Regal Reso, 62 Tele, G&L Comanche

chas smith · Post by **chas smith** » 22 Sep 2002 10:17 am

I think it's a design issue. I have a New Yorker, that's a "museum piece", my first lap guitar and it has a 'coolness factor'. My D-8 got "customized" during the earthquake.

By the same token, why are Stringmasters championed over the Gibson Console Grande?

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 23 Sep 2002 3:50 pm

I've no clue re the New Yorker vs the CG but re the Stringmaster vs the Console Grand issue, many of the top steel players of the late 40's & early 50's were either based or often traveled through the West Coast where they saw and heard the new Fender guitars and even collaborated - in the case of Boggs & Remington - on their design. Leo Fender had a very strong idea of what he wanted his steels to sound like - a big dip in the mids in favor of treble and bass. Coupled with his innovations in amp design, this sound really cut through the mix on record or cut through a band live. It became THE desireable sound. The Gibson CG emphasized the midrange - a sound far different from Fender. It also had a look that had beeen around for about 15 years when the Fenders came out vs the eye-catching blonde look of many of Leo's early guitars. They're equally great guitars but the Gibsons didn't catch and hold player's attention in the way that Fenders have for 50 years and the collector/player market still reflects that. I think they're way undervalued in that regard.[This message was edited by Andy Volk on 23 September 2002 at 04:54 PM.][This message was edited by Andy Volk on 23 September 2002 at 04:55 PM.]

Ian Finlay · Post by **Ian Finlay** » 24 Sep 2002 1:03 pm

The National GC sounds great. A really strong, rich sound with a good "cut" too. The biggest limitation for me is that the tone control isn't suited to doo-wah effects, both due to location and the fact that it's a switch!

Which is why mine will be for sale soon, amongst other reasons....

Ian

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 24 Sep 2002 4:17 pm

Brain cramp! I see I mixed up my Grand Consoles with my Console Grands. In the words of the immortal Emily Litella, "Never mind.".

Ian McLatchie · Post by **Ian McLatchie** » 24 Sep 2002 5:57 pm

Brain cramp or no, right you are, Andy - the Console Grandes are both undervalued and underappreciated. It's a mystery to me why more people don't pick up on what great guitars these are. You mention the midrange, which is usually cited as the big difference from Fenders. What most impresses me about my CG though, is what a fat sound it gets with the first string tuned to G#. As many people have complained here before, most instruments - I'd certainly include both my Stringmaster and Dual Professional - sound pretty wimpy tuned that high, but the CG sounds as full and rich at that pitch as a full third lower. I'm always amazed what a big sound Don Helms gets on those old records, just playing diads so high up the neck. The Fenders are superb, but for my money, the CG is every bit as good, in its own way.

Adam · Post by **Adam** » 28 Sep 2002 1:15 pm

I feel a little silly getting nitpicky Andy V.,but Stringmasters were not yet available in the late Forties and early Fifties.I understand the general point you are making though.Sorry to drift so far off topic.

Andy Alford · Post by **Andy Alford** » 28 Sep 2002 2:25 pm

Trying to judge the popularity G.C.G.today is one thing but using todays market is todays market. How many were sold by Gibson before 1960? I think we must know this before we can move forward.I can remember 20 years ago when any non pedal was fairly cheap when no one hardly wanted them,because the pedal steel was where most non pedal players were.I do have a Gibson Stock book from long ago and they sure were selling both pedal and non pedal steels.Non pedal steels do cost more now in the world of Ebay land,but they often are a good deal if you want an older guitar.

Andy Zynda · Post by **Andy Zynda** » 30 Sep 2002 5:35 am

Thanks for the replies. And holy cow, three andy's in this thread. Hmmmmm

By the way, I got the D8 and it sounds just as heavenly as the New Yorker.
Kool.
-andy-

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 30 Sep 2002 10:30 am

I have a Gibson Grand Console. late 30's, i think. double 7-string with Charlie C. pickups with adjustable polepieces. It's black, with the biggest pearl block markers I've ever seen. sounds great, but needs restoration.

Al Marcus · Post by **Al Marcus** » 5 Oct 2002 8:29 pm

Ian Finley-I had a national New Yorker in 1938, back in those days that was a far out looking guitar.

I used that 3 position switch for Boowah a lot, and I agree my old Gibson tone control was smoother going from low to high.
But the New yorker did the job for me....al