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Topic: History - 8 string to 10 string |
Chris Cummings
From:
England
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Posted 10 Feb 2025 6:17 am |
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| The success of ‘ Slowly’ in the mid 50’s catapulted the sound of pedals into the country charts and for a while the 8 string neck with one or two pedals became close to a n industry standard with manufacturers Bigsby and Fender featuring heavily. .I can imagine massive experimentations regarding tunings, adding pedals etc. taking place to build on the success of this ‘new sound’ but changing from 8 -10 string neck wouldn’t have been an easy jump! So can anyone suggest what caused steel manufacturers to drop quickly manufacturing 8 strings in favour of 10 strings? Was there a song like ‘ Slowly’ that changed everything again or was it more complicated than that! |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 10 Feb 2025 7:16 am Re: History - 8 string to 10 string
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| Chris Cummings wrote: |
| Was there a song like ‘ Slowly’ that changed everything again or was it more complicated than that! |
Although played on a pedal steel, You Took Her Off My Hands by Ray Price was one of the first (if not the first) example of the chromatic strings (Eb & F#) as an integral part of the E9 tuning on record. As innovated by the incomparable Buddy Emmons, of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-sqVUqzhVs |
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Chris Cummings
From:
England
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Posted 12 Feb 2025 4:20 am
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| Thanks Jack! It’s no surprise that Emmons gets a mention regarding steel trends and innovation, what a legend! Interestingly those added magic two strings which soon became the standard E9th setup, does not appear to have been the initial driver for manufacturers to move from 8 to 10 string necks. Both Emmons and Day I understand were both already using 10 string steels prior to developing their revolutionary tuning. So maybe there wasn’t ‘a one’ song moment like ‘Slowly’ that suddenly ended the life of the 8 string pedal steel as an industry standard |
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Duane Becker
From:
Elk,Wa 99009 USA
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Posted 12 Feb 2025 8:15 am
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| With my limited knowledge of the history of pedal steel, I tend to agree with Jack Hanson. Seems everyone went to ten strings after Emmons' wild idea on You Took Her that became standard. I think Emmons also split the B's and G#'s to two pedals as well. |
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Erv Niehaus
From:
Litchfield, MN, USA
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Posted 12 Feb 2025 9:12 am
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| If I remember right, when Buddy played that song with Ray Price he had the chromatic strings on the bottom until he had a chance to change them to the top. |
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Derrick Phillips
From:
Jacksonville, FL
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Posted 12 Feb 2025 2:12 pm Fishell Book
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That's what I read as well Erv - in Buddy's Biography. If you all haven't read Steel Guitar Icon by Steve Fishell - I highly recommend it.
_________________
Derrick in Florida
ETS and Mullen Guitars
Evans and Mesa Amps
Lots of Gibsons
904.540.4408 |
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Bobby Boggs
From:
Upstate SC.
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Posted 12 Feb 2025 3:42 pm
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| I know the high F# and D# came later. But does anyone no for sure when Sho~Bud built the first D-10 and what the E9 tuning would have looked like before the high G# and D#? Thanks in advance. b. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 12 Feb 2025 7:04 pm Re: History - 8 string to 10 string
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| Chris Cummings wrote: |
| ...for a while the 8 string neck with one or two pedals became close to an industry standard, with manufacturers Bigsby and Fender featuring heavily. I can imagine massive experimentations regarding tunings, adding pedals etc. taking place to build on the success of this ‘new sound’, but changing from 8 -10 string neck wouldn’t have been an easy jump! So can anyone suggest what caused steel manufacturers to drop quickly manufacturing 8 strings in favour of 10 strings? Was there a song like ‘ Slowly’ that changed everything again or was it more complicated than that! |
Well, I'll give you my take. The manufacturers' move from an 8-string standard to a 10-string standard was purely consumer-driven. Keep in mind, this is an instrument that was invented largely by players, not by some company just looking to make big money.
As to your other questions, I think that most all of the one and two pedal guitars were either modified non-pedal steels, or Bigsby or Sho~Bud steels. I can't recall any other manufacturer that made significant numbers with less than four pedals. Wright steels were also popular in the beginning, and I only ever saw two or three of them with only one or two pedals. The Marlen or Miller (two more early makes) with only one or two pedals were also very rare. The Fender pedal steels, and even the lowly Harlin pedal steels, came originally with four or more pedals. Because of this, I think that the number of professionally-made (if I may use that term loosely) one and two pedal steels were a lot less than we think. Pedal steelers, being the tinkerers that most of them are, are almost always based in the "more is better" camp.
The 8-string pedal models were common, but only for a short time, maybe four or five years. By 1962 or '63, most pros started moving on to 9 or 10-stringers. (Buddy ditched his Fender 1000 in 1963.) By 1966, just about every "name" player was using a 10-string guitar, and the move by players from 8 to 10-string guitars wasn't difficult at all. The additional strings offered new harmonies and sounds, but posed few challenges as they were just an adjunct, and did not change the basics of what was already there. (Both the C6th and E-based tunings had been around for many years on non-pedal guitars.) Nobody that I knew or heard of stressed much over the 2 newly-added strings, they just gradually incorporated them into their playing. Pro players easily adapted to them, most in just a few weeks, as did most of us lesser-knowns. |
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Chris Cummings
From:
England
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Posted 13 Feb 2025 7:46 am
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| Wow!! Some wonderful responses and information! Thanks guys! Really appreciate the time taken to respond. The steel guitar innovation that took place between 1954-64 never ceases to amaze. Can you imagine what our Steel Guitar Forum would’ve looked like in the mid 50’s?! 😁😁😁 |
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J Fletcher
From:
London,Ont,Canada
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Posted 14 Feb 2025 8:23 am
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The evolution of the E9 tuning from say , 1957 to 1963 , is fascinating . 1957 you have , low to high , E G# B D F# G# B E . Then Jimmy Day put an E between the D and the F# , then Ralph Mooney added the high G# . So at this point I guess the tuning would be B D E F# G# B E G# . I know this is a generalization , and no doubt there were many variations .
So when Emmons put the high F# and D# on his 10 string guitar , he lost two low notes , which would have been ? Did he have an E as a 10th string and a G# as a 9th string ? So the day before he added the two "chromatic" strings to his 10 string guitar , was the tuning , E G# B D E F# G# B E G# ?
Just wondering . |
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Ian Rae
From:
Redditch, England
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Posted 14 Feb 2025 8:50 am
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Here's a chart I found on this forum several years ago.
I'm glad I kept it, as I don't remember who the author was.
_________________
Make sleeping dogs tell the truth!
Homebuilt keyless U12 7x5, Excel keyless U12 8x8, Williams keyless U12 7x8, Telonics rack and 15" cabs |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 14 Feb 2025 8:04 pm
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One thing I'd like to add about the chart in Ian's post (above), if he will permit me.  The chart gives the impression that Moon was playing a 10-string tuning in 1959, but he actually played a Fender 1000 (8-string necks) throughout the 1960's, and he introduced the G# 1st string on that guitar (which only had 3 pedals working on his E tuning at the time).
The basic tuning shown in that chart actually reflects Moon's tuning from the 1970's after he started playing a Sho~Bud 10-string guitar. |
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Chris Cummings
From:
England
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Posted 15 Feb 2025 6:28 am
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| Thanks again guys for stopping by and sharing your knowledge, great! Hey as mentioned any ideas / info on the first 10 string ShoBud? Now that’s a difficult one! |
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