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Topic: string 2 won't drop whole tone |
Jamie Howarth
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 7 Feb 2025 8:01 pm |
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approximately year-old show pro LDG.
Problem is that the right kick string 2 drop won't go all the way to a whole tone drop.The stops are already all the way full travel. Lever action banging up against the wood underneath the cabinet and it still won't go down flat enough, like 7Hz off. The clips are on the lowest slot for max pull. 0.0115 gauge, reportedly what Mr. Green recommends in a signature Jagwire set.
String 9 has a lot of range below engaged pedal pitch if I needed it. String 2 hex nut cranked CW to the point that any further rotation the open tunes sharp.
I don't know the name of the part, but it's affixed too the crank spindle - the actual part that the rod attaches to with the clips... there's an Allen screw locking down that part ( pull rod attaches to) to the crank spindle maybe loosening and resetting it at a different rotation angle so the pull distance is more extreme? Is the rod too long?
Wit's end. I'm not up for major mechanical surgery, but I'm not unskilled at this, I worked through learning a rack and barrel Sho Bud with Ricky Davis so i understand the logic. Something seems dimensionally off.
The usual suspects of the stops, and the position of the rod on the crank is not the issue.
_________________
I'll know I'm playing good when the dog stops howling.
Last edited by Jamie Howarth on 8 Feb 2025 6:40 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Tucker Jackson
From:
Portland, Oregon, USA
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Posted 7 Feb 2025 9:22 pm
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Hi, Jamie.
The correct gauge of a 2nd string is .015.
If you have a .0115 string on there, that would explain why it won't drop a full step. In other words ( dropping the leading zero)... you want "15," not "11.5."
The 11.5 is great for a 3rd string, but not a 2nd. |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 7 Feb 2025 10:00 pm
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Assuming you do have the correct string gauge per Tucker's comment, verify that the raise scissor is not lifting off its stop as you near the end of the pull, it's a fairly common cause for this sort of problem. The raise scissor can actually start engaging simultaneously with the lower so they effectively cancel each other out toward the end of the pull. If so, that could be caused by an over-tight lower return spring. You can try loosening the spring a little (assuming it's adjustable), or perhaps moving the pull rod to a different hole in the changer.
_________________
All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Paul Simon |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2025 8:19 am
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_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com
Last edited by Ricky Davis on 14 Feb 2025 11:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jamie Howarth
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2025 6:27 pm
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| Tucker Jackson wrote: |
Hi, Jamie.
The correct gauge of a 2nd string is .015.
If you have a .0115 string on there, that would explain why it won't drop a full step. In other words ( dropping the leading zero)... you want "15," not "11.5."
The 11.5 is great for a 3rd string, but not a 2nd. |
my mistake it is a .015 and it's correct on the instrument.
_________________
I'll know I'm playing good when the dog stops howling. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 8 Feb 2025 6:43 pm
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You need to increase the pull travel. There are two ways to do this:
1) Move the clipped end of the pull rod to a bellcrank slot or hole that is farther from the cross-shaft i.e. AWAY from the body.
2) Change the hole on the changer finger where the rod attaches to the nylon tuning nut to one that is CLOSER to the guitar body.
Which to move and how far to move them depends on what holes are available and the timing of other pulls on the same cross-shaft. Just remember the bellcrank pulls farther/faster as you move away from its axis, the changer requires less movement/pulls faster for a given pitch change the closer you move towards its axis. Using these adjustments allows you to tune pulls to change together in tune, and on many guitars this is also how feel-stops are set up. |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2025 11:18 pm
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Being a new modern guitar.
Does the guitar have a row of Split Tuning Hex screws on the back side of the changer finger housing?
If the guitar has split tuning. Check the 2nd string split tuning screw, If the Changer Finger is hitting the Split Screw it will not lower, Beyond the Split Screw setting.
Turn the guitar over and engage the lever that lowers the 2nd string.
Check the Changer Raise lever, When the 2nd string is lowering does the raise lever leave the stop bar. If it does the 2nd string Lower Return Spring needs lengthened. So the Raise Lever will stay against the stop bar. While the lower lever is moving to stop.
Good Luck and back Happy Steelin. |
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Jamie Howarth
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 11 Feb 2025 6:49 am
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| Dave Grafe wrote: |
You need to increase the pull travel. There are two ways to do this:
1) Move the clipped end of the pull rod to a bellcrank slot or hole that is farther from the cross-shaft i.e. AWAY from the body.
2) Change the hole on the changer finger where the rod attaches to the nylon tuning nut to one that is CLOSER to the guitar body. |
1) is already the case ... farthest slot is where it is.
2). I can certainly try that.
Thanks!
_________________
I'll know I'm playing good when the dog stops howling.
Last edited by Jamie Howarth on 11 Feb 2025 7:49 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jamie Howarth
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 11 Feb 2025 6:49 am
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| Bobby D. Jones wrote: |
Being a new modern guitar.
Does the guitar have a row of Split Tuning Hex screws on the back side of the changer finger housing?
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No splits.
_________________
I'll know I'm playing good when the dog stops howling. |
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Jamie Howarth
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 11 Feb 2025 6:57 am
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| Ricky Davis wrote: |
Jamie; look at this pic of the E9 changer; I pointed a red arrow and a vacant hole for the 2nd string "Raise Spring"...make sure there is NOT a raise spring there ...
Ricky |
Thanks Ricky - this guitar has a string 2 semitone raise on RKL and I suspect that removal of the spring might affect that. But come to think of it, I wonder if that raise is overtightened... that might be a hidden reason I didn't consider.
_________________
I'll know I'm playing good when the dog stops howling. |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 11 Feb 2025 8:01 am
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_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com
Last edited by Ricky Davis on 14 Feb 2025 11:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jamie Howarth
From:
Massachusetts, USA
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Posted 12 Feb 2025 7:16 pm
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| Ricky Davis wrote: |
| Quote: |
| this guitar has a string 2 semitone raise on RKL and I suspect that removal of the spring might affect that |
NO it will not affect a half tone raise on 2nd string AT ALL...but it WILL affect the lowering a whole tone like I said. So take it OFF..unhook it; and you will get that whole tone lower immediately....I've been working on Shobud for over 30 years....I know things; I even put a picture up there showing you where to NOT HAVE A RAISE SPRING!!!!!!!.
Ricky |
Relax. The Show Pro changer does not look like the one you posted, so I gotta go figure out where the raise spring is.
_________________
I'll know I'm playing good when the dog stops howling. |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 12 Feb 2025 9:32 pm
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_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com
Last edited by Ricky Davis on 14 Feb 2025 11:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 13 Feb 2025 4:06 am
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I agree with Ricky, Jeff Surat is in the best position to help you.
That said, did you try adjusting the return spring on string 2 per Bobby's suggestion? I ask because I had a similar problem with the c.2000 Excel I acquired about a year ago. It didn't all come down to the tension of the return spring, but that played a big part in it. Similarly, I started having a similar issue with one of my Sho Bud Super Pros, and replacing the spring (they're not adjustable) soved it. |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 13 Feb 2025 4:34 pm
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| Dan Beller-McKenna wrote: |
| ...did you try adjusting the return spring on string 2 per Bobby's suggestion?... |
Someone else suggested that too! I've only worked on two Show Pro guitars, neither had raise helper springs. If you do have them they will be obvious, as they are in the pic Ricky posted. It's been asked a couple of times but you haven't responded as to whether or not the raise scissor is lifting off the stop when you engage the lever. That will tell all of those offering suggestions a lot, and as Ricky suggested, post some pics. Otherwise the thread will continue to be just a big guessing exercise.
_________________
All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Paul Simon |
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Dan Beller-McKenna
From:
Durham, New Hampshire, USA
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Posted 15 Feb 2025 4:13 am
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Ooops! Sorry, Ian!  |
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