Trying to date my Marlen D-10

[Richard Rice]

I've had it for many years, but never knew the date it was made. When I got it, I assumed it was an '84, but that doesn't seem likely, in retrospect.
Anybody know how to determine the year? Thanks in advance..

[Ricky Davis]

That's not where the serial number would of been put; unless it got scrubbed off over there by the endplates under keyhead area. Do you see a serial number over there?? if there is no other serial number then maybe original owner sketched it on that metal cause he knew it was 1984, but I would have to see the whole underneath and top and endplate where you fine tune; to tell you when I might of been made. If there is a serial number stamped underneath.....you read them backwards for the year: for example
078791 is from 1978
Ricky

[Richard Rice]

[Richard Rice]

That's not where the serial number would of been put; unless it got scrubbed off over there by the endplates under keyhead area. Do you see a serial number over there?? if there is no other serial number then maybe original owner sketched it on that metal cause he knew it was 1984, but I would have to see the whole underneath and top and endplate where you fine tune; to tell you when I might of been made. If there is a serial number stamped underneath.....you read them backwards for the year: for example
078791 is from 1978
Ricky

Thanks for looking! I can't see any other numbers anywhere on it, besides oddball marker scribble for leg placement, etc. Nothing that seems "factory".. I shot some pics, posted them above..

[Ricky Davis]

OK thanks for pics. That is indeed a "All-Pull" nylon tuning system; made mid-80's for sure(so I'm sure the owner or builder scratched that 1984 on there). Many don't know that Leonard and Marvin actually got the first "Patent" on that Changer finger system they invented in the 80's....yeeehaaa; Oh and the name "MARLEN" comes from the names of those two gentlemen "MAR"-vin and "LEN"-ard.
Ricky

[Richard Rice]

OK thanks for pics. That is indeed a "All-Pull" nylon tuning system; made mid-80's for sure(so I'm sure the owner or builder scratched that 1984 on there). Many don't know that Leonard and Marvin actually got the first "Patent" on that Changer finger system they invented in the 80's....yeeehaaa; Oh and the name "MARLEN" comes from the names of those two gentlemen "MAR"-vin and "LEN"-ard.
Ricky

Sounds great, thank you. That's probably the closest I'll get to a confirmation.. strange I can't find a serial number, but a few of my guitars got out without serial numbers, too.. it happens. I sure like it, regardless.

[Ricky Davis]

strange I can't find a serial number, but a few of my guitars got out without serial numbers, too

That's another thing I noticed about all makers of pedal steels; as time and numbers of steels built, go on; serial number got last importance. No big deal.
Yes I know Marlen's very well; as it was my very first pedal steel back late '70s and I used to talk to Leonard Stadler on the phone so much; he helped me with all my mechanical and building questions through the years; he was one of my very first Mentors. I cried all day when he passed 2002; as I wasn't going to hear him anymore.
Richard you have a GREAT Marlen there. Those are the very rare Bill Lawrence 705 pickups on there that Bill made HIMself. Leonard always took huge pride in the beautiful finishes of the Maple wood and the playability and Sound of the Marlen. Many Builders today took lessons from him back in the 60's and he even made them parts; you can almost see his designs on every modern pedal steels made today.
Ricky

[Jon Light]

On the two Marlens I have worked on, there was a plate on the underside with the model number and serial number. So I would not be surprised if your guitar had the plate, but it has fallen off and gotten lost.

[Tony Oresteen]

My 1971 Marlen D210 has the serial number plate underneath at the headstock end:






The last 4 digits reversed is the year.

[Richard Rice]

Seems there isn't an I.D. plate in there, thus actually dating it probably won't happen.

That said, I've had this one for almost 12 years- and it's a sweet one. I finally got serious about correcting the minor setup issues, and it's playing better than it ever did- hard to stop. I have been playing a Mullen Discovery for the past couple of years, which gave me some insight into how this one needed to play- Only thing that throws me is the knees are different between the Marlen and the Mullen... I don't feel confident in tearing this one down to try to change that, I wish the raise/lower E's were both on the left levers. I got real accustomed to that setup, and switching instruments goofs me up.. but I'll keep working on those mental gymnastics for now.

I sure appreciate the help and comments!

[Jon Light]

........Only thing that throws me is the knees are different between the Marlen and the Mullen... I don't feel confident in tearing this one down to try to change that, I wish the raise/lower E's were both on the left levers......

I was about to give you encouragement to go for it and change the lever functions -- after working on a couple of pull-release Marlens I figured this all-pull guitar would be easy. But.......

If I'm seeing this right, it appears that your LKR isn't pulling anything on the E9. And has no bellcranks on E9. These guitars are not friendly to removing/adding bellcranks from/to cross shafts. If you were to bring me this guitar, after studying on it for a bit I'm afraid I'd be telling you 'sorry -- this is more than I want to try to do ... the downside of the amount of disassembly involved is the risk of doing real harm.'
If the cranks were already sitting on the shaft, it would really be a fairly simple job.

File this under 'knowing my limitations'. Someone a lot better than me might not be as averse.

[Richard Rice]

........Only thing that throws me is the knees are different between the Marlen and the Mullen... I don't feel confident in tearing this one down to try to change that, I wish the raise/lower E's were both on the left levers......

I was about to give you encouragement to go for it and change the lever functions -- after working on a couple of pull-release Marlens I figured this all-pull guitar would be easy. But.......

If I'm seeing this right, it appears that your LKR isn't pulling anything on the E9. And has no bellcranks on E9. These guitars are not friendly to removing/adding bellcranks from/to cross shafts. If you were to bring me this guitar, after studying on it for a bit I'm afraid I'd be telling you 'sorry -- this is more than I want to try to do ... the downside of the amount of disassembly involved is the risk of doing real harm.'
If the cranks were already sitting on the shaft, it would really be a fairly simple job.

File this under 'knowing my limitations'. Someone a lot better than me might not be as averse.

LKR raises string 1 a semitone, and lowers string 6 a full step. RKL lowers my Es a semitone.
Basically the opposite of the Mullen- which I prefer.

[Jon Light]

I'm clearly not reading the photos correctly. No matter.
I'm 100% with you in terms of wanting to have a guitar set up to your desired specs (and having multiple guitars match each other!).

[Tony Glassman]

I think what’s going on is that the LKR lever is on its own shaft. If you look close, you can see the reversing mechanism near the center rail activating a shaft more towards the key head.

If that’s the case, it would seem to be a simple case of moving bell cranks on the crossshaft to align with the desired changes & realigning the existing pull rods to match. That said, I have no experience working on Marlen guitars.

[Jon Light]

Absolutely correct Tony. Lazy of me to not keep in mind that there has to be a reverser there and that would lead to the right shaft.
Yes, it's all there and it's not such a formidable task.

[Ricky Davis]

Seems there isn't an I.D. plate in there, thus actually dating it probably won't happen.

"It is a "1984 Marlen"

[Richard Rice]

I'll have to really sit down and study the underside, as I'm pretty mechanically inclined- but haven't considered changing the functions of pedal or levers before.
I appreciate your expertise, and am less apprehensive with the idea of switching those knee lever functions since seeing your replies. Obviously, I want to see/understand everything before taking tools to this nice guitar- on the other hand, everything I've finally done to it has improved it. It just took me about 12 years to get the guts to try.

Many thanks, Ricky, Jon, Tony, and Tony.

[Jon Light]

Most of what needs to be learned comes with the unexpected, unvisualized 'problems' that pop up. Problem solving is powerful learning.
But a lot of that can be anticipated from lots of thought & study before getting started.

Some of the 'problems' you need to overcome are how to move a bellcrank on its shaft in the jungle of pull rods running around and/or thru the bellcranks. Sometimes loosening and retracting rods is the solution. Sometimes you can loosen the crank and lay it down and slide it under obstructing rods.

But ultimately a job such as reassigning these two levers is pretty 'what you see is what it is' with the important proviso that you note the bellcrank holes and changer holes being used for the changes as they currently are and, assuming that they currently work well, reproduce these settings with the new lever configuration.

[Richard Rice]

Most of what needs to be learned comes with the unexpected, unvisualized 'problems' that pop up. Problem solving is powerful learning.
But a lot of that can be anticipated from lots of thought & study before getting started.

Some of the 'problems' you need to overcome are how to move a bellcrank on its shaft in the jungle of pull rods running around and/or thru the bellcranks. Sometimes loosening and retracting rods is the solution. Sometimes you can loosen the crank and lay it down and slide it under obstructing rods.

But ultimately a job such as reassigning these two levers is pretty 'what you see is what it is' with the important proviso that you note the bellcrank holes and changer holes being used for the changes as they currently are and, assuming that they currently work well, reproduce these settings with the new lever configuration.

Yep, I totally get it. Thank you!

I've built guitars for 50 years, and used to run/work on commercial printing presses- have built a cnc machine from scratch... best to really study everything first, take lots of pics, and keep my hands off everything until I know where things are, and where they need to be..

Nothing worse than a botched DIY fix..

[Richard Rice]

Lotta things to consider, now that I've had a little closer look. I'm in no hurry, it's interesting to finally notice how some rods pass through bellcranks, see how the reversing mechs work, the way the changer raises/lowers, and the leverages involved... it's quite a machine. Have to really give credit to all those who figured it out to begin with.

That said, my first forays into wrenching on these was an absolute nightmare- I started on a Multikord, then a terrible Maverick, then a disaster of a Shobud Crossover. At least this one appears to make more sense. And no, I'm not going to just jump in... that much I know can be disaster.. lol

[Richard Rice]

I finally tested my allen sets on the Marlen, just to get prepared.. seems he used 9/64"?? I don't have any in that size- strange. My 1/8" is too small, my 5/32" too big. I don't think I've ever seen anybody use that size before, in all my years..

I ordered one, hope it fits. None of my SAE or metric wrenches fit.. WTH? hahaha

[Richard Rice]

The more I look and think things through, the bigger the challenge. I guess I'm taking pause for now, I would hate to do something stupid to such a nice instrument.

Seems like a job for somebody very experienced with these guitars- I don't want to completely disassemble the main frame. I'll probably try to adjust the knees a little closer together and live with the layout for now.

[Ricky Davis]

Well if you send it down to me in Bertram, Texas, I can set it up for anybody how they want it to play.
Ricky

[Tony Glassman]

pm sent