I just picked up a Bowman SD-10 push pull guitar. Never had a PP steel. This guitar came from a pawn shop so no history or help available through the seller. This guitar is a 3x5 with the E's on the left. I've had several standard all-pull guitars (including a Fender 800) and I could set all of them up pretty well.
Having a problem with the 4th string E lower and raises. As I understand it, you tune the raises with the pedal/lever engaged at the peghead then tune the open string at the changer. Did this on all of the strings and they work great, but cannot get string 4 to cooperate. If I tune the raise on the F lever I can tune the lower in tune no problem but then the C pedal raise (F#) comes in flat. If I tune to the raise to the F# on the C pedal I can get the raise lever in tune but the lower is sharp and I have not been able to adjust down to get it in tune. I don't have the C pedal raise on string 8 so no issue there, it plays and stays in tune.
Would a different string gauge make a difference? I've adjusted about everything I can see underneath the guitar that has to do with this issue.
This is my first PP guitar. I REALLY like the way it plays and the tone is about as good as it gets. A/B'd it with my PRP Mullen (which I just put up for sale) and there is no comparison. It really sounds great and is well built with little or no cabinet drop. Just the one issue. Any help greatly appreciated!
Thanks
Lee Rider
Bowman Push Pull Question
Moderator: Shoshanah Marohn
Bowman Push Pull Question
Last edited by Lee Rider on 24 Oct 2023 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
StringBender Musical Instruments selling Gene Parson's StringBender products
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Paul Sutherland
- Posts: 2732
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- Location: Placerville, California
I'm not familiar with Bowman steels, but assuming their changer is very similar to an Emmons PP changer then I can offer the following.
First you should tune the open e string at the keyhead to get it into the ballpark. No pedals or levers yet.
Then I like to start by tuning the lower first. Reach under the guitar with one hand and find the 4th string changer finger and move it until to rests firmly against the lower adjustment screw. Check with a tuner, or by ear, that it has lowered a half tone. Adjust as necessary with the tuning screw on the end plate.
If you can't get it to lower to pitch, then you probably need to add some slack to the raise collar rods, as they can prevent the lower from working properly. PPs must have slack to work properly.
Next you want to tune the whole tone raise. Again, you reach under the guitar and move the 4th string changer finger with one hand. When you have the finger fully against the body of the steel (which should be the whole tone raise) you tune the 4th string at the keyhead to F#, or a bit flat if you use Just Intonation. This is a rather clumsy operation unless you can get a person to assist at one or the other end of the guitar.
Once the whole tone raise pitch is set at the keyhead, you release the changer finger and check the tuning, and adjust at the changer to get the open E properly in tune. Now, engage the floor pedal and see if it goes up to pitch correctly, and returns to pitch when released. It it does not, you have a problem in the linkage that requires adjusting or lubrication. Don't forget the effects of hystersis if you are using a tuner.
The F raise on the lever is the last thing to deal with. If the Bowman is like an Emmons, you reach under the guitar and turn the half tone tuner on the raise rod. This should be right near the knee lever.
Another factor that can come into play is if you don't have enough travel on the floor pedal. That is adjusted at the cross bar where the pedal rod meets the body of the guitar.
Lots of adjustment on the Emmons PP, and probably the Bowman, but when properly setup they are remarkably durable. And they sound great.
First you should tune the open e string at the keyhead to get it into the ballpark. No pedals or levers yet.
Then I like to start by tuning the lower first. Reach under the guitar with one hand and find the 4th string changer finger and move it until to rests firmly against the lower adjustment screw. Check with a tuner, or by ear, that it has lowered a half tone. Adjust as necessary with the tuning screw on the end plate.
If you can't get it to lower to pitch, then you probably need to add some slack to the raise collar rods, as they can prevent the lower from working properly. PPs must have slack to work properly.
Next you want to tune the whole tone raise. Again, you reach under the guitar and move the 4th string changer finger with one hand. When you have the finger fully against the body of the steel (which should be the whole tone raise) you tune the 4th string at the keyhead to F#, or a bit flat if you use Just Intonation. This is a rather clumsy operation unless you can get a person to assist at one or the other end of the guitar.
Once the whole tone raise pitch is set at the keyhead, you release the changer finger and check the tuning, and adjust at the changer to get the open E properly in tune. Now, engage the floor pedal and see if it goes up to pitch correctly, and returns to pitch when released. It it does not, you have a problem in the linkage that requires adjusting or lubrication. Don't forget the effects of hystersis if you are using a tuner.
The F raise on the lever is the last thing to deal with. If the Bowman is like an Emmons, you reach under the guitar and turn the half tone tuner on the raise rod. This should be right near the knee lever.
Another factor that can come into play is if you don't have enough travel on the floor pedal. That is adjusted at the cross bar where the pedal rod meets the body of the guitar.
Lots of adjustment on the Emmons PP, and probably the Bowman, but when properly setup they are remarkably durable. And they sound great.
Last edited by Paul Sutherland on 22 Oct 2023 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.
Paul: Thanks for the comments, I'll try that tomorrow. PP's are a very different animal for sure and just going through this exercise is educational. The more I know about the guitar the better I seem to play for some reason.
Lee Rider
Lee Rider
StringBender Musical Instruments selling Gene Parson's StringBender products
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Andy Gibson
- Posts: 151
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- Location: Tennessee USA
Get this…….
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274497516451
It’ll tell you all you need to know about push pulls
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274497516451
It’ll tell you all you need to know about push pulls
Just received it. ThanksGet this…….
https://www.ebay.com/itm/274497516451
It’ll tell you all you need to know about push pulls
Lee Rider
StringBender Musical Instruments selling Gene Parson's StringBender products
I fully expect that with the responses above, with your research, and with the Clem Schmitz material in hand, you have found this info but to summarize (because it was a revelation once I finally understood it ---
You must tune the changer before you can start tuning the strings and tuning the pedals and levers (as was laid out, above). Doing it any other way presents a possibility that you can get the guitar playing somewhat in tune but it won't be optimal and it won't play as well as a PP can play.
One wild card in this discussion is not knowing how closely the Bowman guitar follows the design of the Emmons.
You must tune the changer before you can start tuning the strings and tuning the pedals and levers (as was laid out, above). Doing it any other way presents a possibility that you can get the guitar playing somewhat in tune but it won't be optimal and it won't play as well as a PP can play.
One wild card in this discussion is not knowing how closely the Bowman guitar follows the design of the Emmons.
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Paul Sutherland
- Posts: 2732
- Joined: 8 Mar 2007 3:45 pm
- Location: Placerville, California
The pictures are helpful. The Bowman looks very similar to an Emmons PP. I believe I even see a half tone tuner on the 4th string raise rod for tuning the F lever. You should be fine if you follow standard Emmons PP protocol.
Have fun.
PS: It looks like there is another half tone tuner on the fifth string C pedal raise rod. That would be for balancing the 4th and 5th string raises on that pedal: not for getting a half tone raise on the 5th string. You definitely want a whole tone raise there. It's just easier to get it just right when you have such a tuner on the 5th string raise.
Have fun.
PS: It looks like there is another half tone tuner on the fifth string C pedal raise rod. That would be for balancing the 4th and 5th string raises on that pedal: not for getting a half tone raise on the 5th string. You definitely want a whole tone raise there. It's just easier to get it just right when you have such a tuner on the 5th string raise.
It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.
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Tony Glassman
- Posts: 4470
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- Location: The Great Northwest
Another helpful hint, is “timing” all the changes on any pedal or lever. Multiple changes should preferably start and definitely end at the same time.
To time raises, choose different leverage positions at the changer finger attachment holes. The holes closest to the changer pull faster, but stiffer compared to the farthest hole which pulls slower but easier. For example on pedal A (B->C#), you might attach the 5th string pull rod at the middle hole while attaching the 10th string pull rod the farthest hole. That way the longer 5th string changer pulls faster than the shorter 10th string pull to end up at the body simultaneously. Also you might need to move the heavier string pull rod collar back towards the changer plus add a compression spring between the pull rod collar and the bell crank swivel.
Lowers do not have leverage options and can only be timed by rod collar placement +\- compression springs.
Clem covers this subject extensively in his material. “Timing” the changes can make the difference between a clunky/stiff playing guitar and a smooth and easier playing one.
To time raises, choose different leverage positions at the changer finger attachment holes. The holes closest to the changer pull faster, but stiffer compared to the farthest hole which pulls slower but easier. For example on pedal A (B->C#), you might attach the 5th string pull rod at the middle hole while attaching the 10th string pull rod the farthest hole. That way the longer 5th string changer pulls faster than the shorter 10th string pull to end up at the body simultaneously. Also you might need to move the heavier string pull rod collar back towards the changer plus add a compression spring between the pull rod collar and the bell crank swivel.
Lowers do not have leverage options and can only be timed by rod collar placement +\- compression springs.
Clem covers this subject extensively in his material. “Timing” the changes can make the difference between a clunky/stiff playing guitar and a smooth and easier playing one.