Fender Twin and Dual Showman

Justin Shaw · Post by **Justin Shaw** » 9 Sep 2023 1:17 pm

Hey a 2 parter for you folks:

1. There's a 68 Fender Twin Reverb for sale locally. Anything I should look out for? Of course the more original the better is the general trend.

2. I know Twins are well-liked by PSG players but how does the Dual Showman Reverb compare? I see a 73 or 74 one online for about the same as this Twin. My understanding is that the Dual Showman is basically a head version of the Twin Reverb. Is that it? In that case it's more like comparing model years of the same amp!

I know there's lots of Fender vs threads but I wanted the PSG player's perspective.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 9 Sep 2023 2:26 pm

Yes. The Showman is basically the head-cab version of the Twin. Having just mounted my Twin-Reverb chassis in a head cab and getting good results at work, I'd look seriously at that Dual Showman Reverb.It's much easier to carry around two medium-weight pieces than one really heavy one.

I'm assuming that the Dual Showman for sale is just the head, but even if it were the head plus the cab I'd still take a serious look, just for the cool factor of owning an amp the size of a Frigidaire. Naturally you'd want to make arrangements for a smaller,lighter cab for the gig.

One other good thing about the Dual Showman Reverb head: It's several inches taller than the non-reverb Showman and there's ample room for the reverb tank. My(aftermarket) head cab is the standard 9 1/2" deep and the tank went in, but it's real close quarters.

Justin Shaw · Post by **Justin Shaw** » 9 Sep 2023 2:43 pm

OK thank you that helps a lot! It's actually a head plus a 2x12 with one original speaker and a Celestion to replace the one that broke. And yes the head is the tallest I've ever seen haha.

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 9 Sep 2023 9:26 pm

A true '68 TR is going to have cloth wiring (desirable) and drip-edge grille. It's going to also be closer to the blackface circuit with some cathode circuit modifications that are easy to undo.

That said it would appeal more to an armpit guitarist in that it's not as high-power clean as the later TR's... also the speaker choice would vary the price quite a bit.

The drip-edge silverfaces have come into vogue... so the prices are up. For your purposes you may want the DSR instead... we have seen no pictures etc so not knowing much else that is what I have to offer. In the past the drip-edges were the 'poor man's blackface'... lead dress matters quite a bit in Fender amps and cloth solid-core wiring stays where you bend it... the plastic stuff just goes where it will. All this is cork-sniffer stuff so get what sounds good to you that you can afford.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 10 Sep 2023 6:03 am

I like the showman TFL5000D showman head.

Wonder what all those numbers/letters mean?

Justin Shaw · Post by **Justin Shaw** » 10 Sep 2023 7:24 am

Stephen is the TFL5000D showman head the more desirable one then? I believe that was only the 68 and maybe 69 I'm not sure.

Also Bill TFL5000D is broken down as follows:

TFL = Teflon wire coating instead of cloth
5000 = Fender Dual Showman Reverb
D = Domestic

Stephen Cowell · Post by **Stephen Cowell** » 11 Sep 2023 6:32 pm

Justin Shaw wrote:Stephen is the TFL5000D showman head the more desirable one then? I believe that was only the 68 and maybe 69 I'm not sure.

Also Bill TFL5000D is broken down as follows:

TFL = Teflon wire coating instead of cloth
5000 = Fender Dual Showman Reverb
D = Domestic

Found pictures of the shorter one... it still has no drip-edge and a three-prong accessory outlet. I'd love to see inside one... teflon wire is great, as long as it's solid-core. If it has a master volume it's the later one... pictures very necessary. Being a head it's easier to lug... Reverb has a nice one for 999$ with two JBL 15's in a cabinet... looks like a screaming deal to me (EDIT: sold). They made a taller one, check Reverb listings. Either one will work great... the Twin is probably going to cost more and be worth more in resale.

Justin Shaw · Post by **Justin Shaw** » 11 Sep 2023 9:22 pm

There are a few of the TFL5000D non-Master volume DSRs on Reverb right now. One in Baltimore, one in Utica. I also have a local shop that just got in a SF Twin Reverb and they're going to get back to me in the morning with a report on how original it is and price. Already though I expect to pay at least 50% more for the Twin if that's the way it goes. If I go look at it maybe I'll take some pics and post it here for people to take a look at.

Thanks for the help!

Mike Holder · Post by **Mike Holder** » 11 Sep 2023 9:31 pm

Justin the cabinet that came with a Dual Showman had 2/15” JBL speakers in it and it’s huge but if you can find a matching head & can buy it… I have the head in a modified cabinet and use a PF-400 in a single 15” cabinet that matches and it sounds great!… getcha one!

Justin Shaw · Post by **Justin Shaw** » 12 Sep 2023 7:09 pm

OK cool thanks for all the info! Very happy to hear about a speaker that's still in production that someone likes!

I went and played an all original 68 Fender Twin Reverb today that was in such perfect condition that it basically looked new. It had the cover, the drip-edge, the manual, original transformers and oxford speakers, pretty much everything but the receipt.

They had no PSG there so I tried it with a guitar. The reverb didn't get very deep and the trem didn't get very slow but it's loud and clear and clean that's for sure! Nice singing clean feedback too. I see now why they call the Oxfords "Ox-farts" though.

However they wanted about $2200 for it, which seems high to me. Granted it's in almost unbelievably pristine condition, but I want to actually use the thing, which means I'd end up reducing its value just by playing it.

At this point I'm leaning towards the showman head so I can try some other cabs, including the PF-400 hopefully. I saw this online:

https://reverb.com/item/71407158-fender ... -edge-1968

what do you guys think? Seems like they've done their work and is a pretty good specimen overall.

There's also ones like this kicking around:
https://reverb.com/item/73164814-1969-f ... b-tfl5000d
https://reverb.com/item/73059901-fender ... -drip-edge

Mike Holder · Post by **Mike Holder** » 12 Sep 2023 7:23 pm

I say if you’re not in a hurry, keep looking.. I bought mine in Nashville off CL for about $800.00 and it was in better shape than this one pictured, just an opinion but there’s plenty of those in Canada and the exchange is high so bear that in mind!

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 12 Sep 2023 9:01 pm

I'm with Mike H. on this, I recommend patience until you find one for reasonable money. You'll probably have to do some maintenance. I got a nice '69 Twin Reverb off Nashville CL a couple of years ago for $675 US. I did the maintenance - just the usual stuff, not a lot of money - and it's worth what I have into it.

Lots of people mark them up like crazy, but selling them for big money is tough. I see them at guitar shows all the time but as far as I can see, they just sit unless they're cheap.

My take is that a Dual Showman Reverb head is about the same price as a comparable (period/originality/condition) Twin Reverb. The tradeoff is the head is a lot lighter but you gotta buy a loaded cabinet, vs the combo is a lot heavier but has the speakers/cabinet.

I love Twin/Dual-Showman Reverbs for pedal steel. Probably my favorite sound if I need to be loud. We should be thrilled that they're reasonable. Guitar players are paying stupid money for Princeton/Deluxe/Vibrolux Reverbs. Hell, Champs and Vibro Champs are expensive. Most places I play won't tolerate loud. I can get away with a large amp for pedal steel because it has reserve power for the volume pedal - it never gets cranked. But I don't know any guitar players playing clubs with a Twin. They'd get run outta town if they turned them up to where they sound good. And guitar players/collectors are the primary market for vintage guitar amps.

My take anyway.

Justin Shaw · Post by **Justin Shaw** » 13 Sep 2023 6:05 am

OK thanks guys I appreciate it. I'll keep an eye out and wait.

Certainly the Twin/DSR sound is a classic sound for pedal steel. I even saw someone say that PF's Little Walter sounds very very similar.

Ken Morgan · Post by **Ken Morgan** » 13 Sep 2023 6:53 am

I always thought the prefix letters on my TFL5005 Bandmaster stood for “Too Friggin Loud.”

Any of those TFL amps were mighty good…

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 14 Sep 2023 12:49 am

as stated, the DSR is a Twin Reverb in a head cab , it has a 4 ohm OT. The Showman , NOT DUAL, is also the same amp with an 8 ohm OT.

Moron here- I sold my 67 Showman head a few yeas back ( no reverb) like a fool. It was a glorious amp!

DSR or Twin, can't go wrong with either, given they are in good shape.