What happened?

[Tony Boadle]

I'm loving my recently acquired six-string PSG but a surprise problem has me totally head-wrecked. Everything was fine until yesterday.I turned the guitar upside down on the bench to fit a small spring on one of the levers. It was sloppy and the rods kept falling out of their slots. While I was checking pedal travel and generally looking over the set-up I noticed theA pedal suddenly became stiff.
It was working smoothly before but now seems to have two stages, easy at first then stiffer as if something's holding it back. Now I can't get both pulls (6 and 3) to work correctly, If 6 is right, 3 is out, and vice versa. I've been at it all day, trying everything I can think of to sort it, to no avail.
Pedal down, tune the raise at the head then pedal up and tune the open string with the hex nut.
The only clue I can offer is that I've stripped the thread on two nuts already so something is sticking but I just can't see where or how ...it all looks ok to me
Am I missing something obvious?

[John Hyland]

in turning it over you may have dislodged a string ball end and it is now interfering with the mech

[Bobby D. Jones]

From your description of the way you are tuning, You are used to playing and tuning a Pull and Release Changer.

The Changer in this guitar is an All Pull. The tuning is completely different. The guitar is open tuned with the keys on the key head.

Then to tune the Raises, In the window under changer, The metal bar with 3 holes closest to the top of the guitar, (When guitar is sitting on its legs in playing position). Will raise the strings. With Tuning Nuts in the holes in the bar.

To lower a string, The 3 hole metal bar, With tuning nuts, Closest to the Phillips Screw heads in the picture will lower a string and tune to a lower note.

NOW TO GETTING YOUR GUUITAR TUNED UP

First thing. Look at the Raise and Lower Levers. The lower levers with the springs hooked to them, Should be setting tight against the stop bar. Look just under the springs with plastic sleeves, That Is The Stop Bar. Now with the tuning wrench go to the window under the changer, Place the wrench on the tuning nut in upper Raise bar, Start turning the nylon tuning nut Counter Clock wise and watch the Raise bar in the changer. Loosen the nut till the Raise Lever comes back against the stop bar, and lines up With the Lower Bar. Like in this picture.



Go from string to string and release the Raise Nut till all Raise Levers are lined up with the Lower levers against the Stop Bar.

Now Check the Lower Levers to be sure, If the Lower Levers are not tight against the Stop bar. Go the the tuning nuts in the 3 hole bar near the phillips screws and turn the Lower Tuning nuts till the stop bars are tight against the Stop Bar. Makes sure all Raise and Lower Levers are against the Stop Bar.
NOW TO TUNE YOUR GUITAR.
Tune each string to the open note, With the KEYS on the Key Head.
To Tune a Raise. Engage the Pedal or Knee Lever required. Hold the pedal or lever, Got to the Nylon Tuner in the Upper 3 hole Raise Bar. and slowly adjust to proper raise note. Go string to string and tune the raises,
Then to Lowers, Holding the Knee Lever and adjusting the Nylon Tuning Nut to reach the note.

Good Luck in tuning your baby and Happy Steelin.

[Donny Hinson]

Bobby, the 2nd paragraph in your post is incorrect. I know you meant to say “all-pull”, but you said “The changer in this guitar is a pull and release”.

Yes, those pictures definitely show an all-pull guitar, and it is seriously over-tuned.

Tony needs to read the sticky on “Overtuning (and Undertuning) an All Pull steel”.

[Bobby D. Jones]

Thanks Donny somehow my fingers did not write what I was thinking.

[Tony Boadle]

John, thanks but the string ball-ends are ok....pic attached by the way of my paternal grandfather in Sydney circa 1933!(he was actually Joseph, not John)
Bobby/Donny...this is amazing stuff. I'm re-fuelled with enthusiasm and am looking forward to fixing the tuning over the weekend. I've found the sticky and can't wait to sort the problem. There are no obvious pedal or lever stops, should I fit some? Would that explain why the top string has broken twice already? Thanks so much for
restoring my sanity!

[Tony Boadle]

Excellent progress this evening (up to a point!)
I'll followed all instructions, basically loosened everything and started from scratch. All was going well and I knew that success was in sight.
Then that strange clunk noise happened on the A pedal, the noise that started this whole over-tuning problem. The pedal suddenly went slack and I hardly dared look under the guitar.
The good news is that I found out what's been happening.
Take a look at the attached pic... you'll see that the A pedal mechanism is occasionally fouling the little bolt holding the knee lever. So when I thought the pedal was at it's maximum travel, it was sometimes actually being stopped by the bolt.
A little extra pressure and it would jump past it with a clunk and the re-tuning would start all over.
Looking to sorting it over the weekend, thanks again for the advice and guidance!

[Tom Jordan]

It looks like you can reverse the bolt and nut on the knee lever to add some clearance. If you don't want do do that, file down the end of the bolt (with the nut still attached) to shorten it a bit.

Reversing would be easiest.

Also, see if the knee lever bracket is moving lateraly on the cross shaft. All easy stuff. Just take it one problen at a time as you have been.

Tom

[Donny Hinson]

Tony, at least 4 (and maybe 5) of your pedals are overtuned. Note the examples in the pic below...the ones circled in red are all overtuned. The one circled in green is what the fingers are supposed to look like (when they're not overtuned). Both even, and against the stop-bar. Hope this helps:

[Tony Boadle]

Thanks Tom
Donny, I see and understand exactly what you're saying, but I can't work out how to make those overtuned fingers settle back to where they should be.... advice urgently appreciated!

[Tony Boadle]

Saturday morning update... I upturned the guitar to work on the over-long Allen bolt, then I noticed that all the overtuned fingers had slipped back into the correct position over night. Could it be that they were just stuck in their previous positions from long-term lack of movement, and once I loosened everything theygradually eased back through the night? (I had applied a little light oil on each one btw)

[Donny Hinson]

Tony, several things would make that happen. If there was a lack of lubrication (doubtful), or if you had the strings off or loosened, and then tightened them up. Also, if you loosened the tuning nuts, then string tension would pull the raises back to the home position.

Remember, any time those fingers aren't firmly against the stop bar when no pedals or levers are activated, you have a problem

[Tony Boadle]

All good, Donny. Just finished tuning up, all pedals working as they should and much easier to press.
I'll tube the levers tomorrow and I don't anticipate any problems.
Thanks again for your patient assistance, SGF to the rescue as always!

[Ron Pruter]

Tony , read Jon Lights Sticky note on over-tuning at the beginning of this section. Very good thing to know. RP

[Bobby D. Jones]

Just got on the forum and checked this post.
Great to see, Those Raise and lower levers lined up against the stop bar.

With the Changer Levers pulled so far from the stop bar. If the strings were old, It may be there was not enough tension on the Strings to pull them back. In lubing and working on the guitar, Did you turn the tuning keys? Or pull on the strings, Or guitar laid on something where the weight of the guitar was on the strings, May have made the raise levers return to the stop bar.

Good Luck getting the guitar set up proper and tuned, Happy Steelin.