A6/F#7 tuning

Tim Toberer · Post by **Tim Toberer** » 16 Jul 2023 8:38 am

I am hoping people will link videos information etc. about this tuning. This one seems to be a hidden gem and for me more approachable than its cousin C6/A7. I guess you could apply C6/A7 to this tuning, but the C6 version has the 3 on top where as the A6 version has the 5 on top. This really changes the feel and flavor to more major sounding. I really like that the dissonant notes are down low and you still have the full 6 string A6 up top. This tuning would also work tuning down to G6 for 8 string dobro wink wink.

Quick observation about this tuning, it contains a diminished chord and could be applied to Barry Harris 6th diminished scale ideas. I know Beboppers love that flat ninth sound! I am currently going down the 6 diminished rabbit hole and curious how it could be applied to non pedal.

David Matzenik · Post by **David Matzenik** » 16 Jul 2023 1:27 pm

I switch back and forth, between A6 and C6 every day, depending on how the tunes lay out.

Tim Toberer · Post by **Tim Toberer** » 17 Jul 2023 5:20 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1qBoo1HBVo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j23WDLjINn4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCs6KEKpfus
This seems to be a pretty rare tuning indeed, but these recordings are some the most gorgeous I have ever heard. Mikiya calls this tuning A13b9 which is very similar to A6/#7 having the diminished sounds of the b9 or Bb note. Lowering the bass note back to F# would give you the F#7, raising to G gives you the A7 and thus the 13b9. I wish these were filmed so you could see his slants better. It is hard to tell when he is just playing straight bar. This tuning really has that moody not quite happy not quite sad sound of so much lovely 50's jazz.

I would love to hear Billy Hew Len playing this tuning if anyone has a recording. I will keep looking, but yes this seems to be a rare tuning indeed!

I am not sure what tuning he is using here, but man this just took my breath away!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQEMfiqRnoo

Tim Toberer · Post by **Tim Toberer** » 17 Jul 2023 7:51 am

I am just going to keep going on about this cause it is fun! I put this tuning low to high (G-A#-C#-E-F#-A-C#-E)= A13b9 on my little homemade 8 string this morning and it is loads of fun.

When you strum across the strings you hear the super unresolved Dim 7 chord ringing against the super stable A6 chord.

As I noodled around a bit I kept hearing that Jimi Hendrix chord 7#9. I had to grab the archtop to find it, but it is a F#7#9/A# chord A#-C#-E-F#-A.

So you have a very dominant sounding tuning with a full 6 string 6th chord to resolve to. this is just scratching the surface, but already there is a lot to work with.

Levi Gemmell · Post by **Levi Gemmell** » 18 Jul 2023 1:09 pm

I'm listening through the Billy Hew Len tapes again at the moment - and I am dead certain he demonstrates this tuning to Hal Smith. Will go back and dig for it after work!

Just love Mikiya's solo work, and thanks for linking in this thread. Above my pay grade, but really inspirational.

Tim Toberer · Post by **Tim Toberer** » 19 Jul 2023 4:48 am

Levi Gemmell wrote:
Just love Mikiya's solo work, and thanks for linking in this thread. Above my pay grade, but really inspirational.

It is well above mine too! I just love reaching for the stuff on the high shelves.

It surprises me that there are not more people playing this tuning, or maybe there are and I just can't find the examples. I think for anyone who plays A6 as their regular tuning, but wants to experiment with more harmonically dense sounds, this family of tunings is where it is at. I should mention that by tuning the low A up to B you have a very nice A13 that is comparable to a low version of E13 with G-B-C#-E-F#-A-C#-E. On a short scale guitar you can do this with the same strings used for C6-A6. This one is a bit more user friendly without the super dissonant b9.

Tim Toberer · Post by **Tim Toberer** » 19 Jul 2023 5:29 am

This was posted awhile ago by Michael Johnstone using A13. He does some incredible slanting to get all kinds of chords.

"I too play an A6 8-string tuned like this

E
C#
A
F#
E
C#
A
G

The 7th on the bottom opens up some nice combinations for western swing and bluesy jazz like a Dom7#9 among other things. If I wanted to shred, I'd change the 1st string to a re-intrant 9th interval (the B that would by pitch, be between the 2nd and 3rd string).
If I wanted to do more pop standards, I'd swap out the 1st string for a re-intrant Maj7 (the G# that would by pitch be between the 3rd and 4th string). Those scale and color tones you can reach up and snag with your middle finger like the chromatic strings on pedal E9.
The rest I'd do with shell voicings and different kinds of slants (forward, reverse, staggered incremental, contrapuntal, compound 3 string, etc) which is the whole Zen of that kind of guitar. I've tried hand operated gadgets a few times and if they're close enough to use, they're in my way when I'm not using them and interrupt my picking when I do use them. I don't pull strings behind the bar either because you have to kinda change your bar grip and set up for that trick and there's no time for that. I need my hands free and in control of the bar, picks and muting at all times.
Here's my A6 tuning as described.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqYJKYWtbVw "

Levi Gemmell · Post by **Levi Gemmell** » 20 Jul 2023 3:09 pm

Thanks for the link to Michael Johnstone's playing. Phenomenal slants remind me of Billy Robinson, amazing moving voices that seem like pedal steel at first listen.

The Billy Hew Len archive, recorded by Hal Smith on various visits to Hawai'i, are a fountain of knowledge when it comes to A6th-based tunings.

If anyone is interested in Hawaiian steel guitar, there is little that cannot be learned from the tapes. Hot, swinging playing that references the early stylists and Jules Ah See by turns, lush chords on his A6th redolent of Andy Iona, harmonic passages on the frypan that recall my favourite, David Keli'i... It's all there.

https://archive.org/details/LenThree03

Tim Toberer · Post by **Tim Toberer** » 21 Jul 2023 4:46 am

Levi Gemmell wrote: The Billy Hew Len archive, recorded by Hal Smith on various visits to Hawai'i, are a fountain of knowledge when it comes to A6th-based tunings.

If anyone is interested in Hawaiian steel guitar, there is little that cannot be learned from the tapes. Hot, swinging playing that references the early stylists and Jules Ah See by turns, lush chords on his A6th redolent of Andy Iona, harmonic passages on the frypan that recall my favourite, David Keli'i... It's all there.

https://archive.org/details/LenThree03

That is quite a collection of recordings! Good to listen to in the workshop while I am doing mindless tasks. Someone posted this a while ago, when I first started playing and I listened a bit. Completely over my head at the time. I had forgotten about it. I thought it was pedal steel at least some of it is it seems to be. It just says steel guitar in the description. I am hoping I can make more sense of it now. It will be enjoyable nevertheless. I see a section called tuning talks. Can you tell on what tracks he is playing the A13b9 tuning?

I am listening to the first section and it definitely sounds like pedal steel. Too bad its not a video!

Tim Toberer · Post by **Tim Toberer** » 21 Jul 2023 5:07 am

https://vimeo.com/415174883 Holy Moses!

David Matzenik · Post by **David Matzenik** » 21 Jul 2023 1:00 pm

Levi Gemmell wrote:
If anyone is interested in Hawaiian steel guitar, there is little that cannot be learned from the tapes. Hot, swinging playing that references the early stylists and Jules Ah See by turns, lush chords on his A6th redolent of Andy Iona, harmonic passages on the frypan that recall my favourite, David Keli'i... It's all there.

https://archive.org/details/LenThree03

All that, and Konokiki fishing rights!