So...how about string 7 and 9?

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 5 Jul 2023 9:37 pm

Your answers to my question about strings 1&2 were so good, I have to try:

What are strings 7 and 9 good for? (other than the straight 7th chord on String 9)??

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 5 Jul 2023 10:42 pm

Lots of uses. The F# = 2 on the open E tuning is an important melody note, much the same as for string 1. With A and B pedals down, it is the 6th tone of the resulting A6 tuning. If you have one or more changes on string 7, there are many more uses.

The 9th string D, aside from being the b7 in the E9 tuning, can be used as the root, can serve as a melody note. If you have the D=>C# change, it can serve other purposes, including being the root of a chord/arpeggio/scale, or the D=>C# can change the voicing from a b7 to 6th chord. Or with A and B down, resolves the low sus4 to a 3 in the A6 chord.

That's just thinking without my guitar handy.

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 6 Jul 2023 6:31 pm

I'd just like to thank the contributors here, this has been wonderful! After stopping for 7 years I'd forgotten much of this (or at least forgotten that I knew it...)...but there was much more here that I never knew.
So THANK YOU ALL!!
-Steve

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 6 Jul 2023 11:31 pm

The 7th and 1st strings are the root note in a minor chord in the pedals down position.
If you are playing a C major chord at the 3rd fret on strings 8, 6 and 5 move your thumb to string 7 and you have an A minor chord.

If you use your 9th string as your root note one possibility is to play a C major chord at the 10th fret. Strings 9 ,7 and 6 with the pedals down. This is a great position because the A and B pedals have a different function. The B pedal now lowers the fifth of the chord and if you add the 5th string you have a C major 7th chord. (this is how you add more changes to your steel set up without adding pedals or levers but that is another story)

Try this simple way to play a 1, 4, 5 chord progression without moving the bar.

Stay on the 3rd fret:

strings 8,6,5 pedals down C major

strings 9,7,6 pedals down F major

strings 8,6,5 pedals up G major

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 7 Jul 2023 8:21 am

String 7 (F#) is the 5th of your B(B6)chord when E-lower lever is engaged.
F# is also the 7th of G#m7 with E’s lowered.

I have half- and whole-step raises on my F# strings for creating major7 and dom7 chords with AB pedals.

As Dave M said, both F# strings have value for single note melodic phrasing, as does string 9 (lowered or unchanged).

I strongly suggest acquiring an app called Steel Sidekick.
https://steelsidekick.com/
It is an interactive steel guitar fretboard map that instantly lays out the tuning changes when pedals and levers are activated.

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 7 Jul 2023 8:28 am

Fred-
Thanks for the tip on the app.

However, this forum is particularly great at pointing out not only what is possible, but also what it truly useful...which an app does not do.

Given the impossibility of learning everything possible, in my limited remaining time on this earth, I look to the Forum to help me find the things that I really can use, and that my limited memory can encompass...

I do discover stuff on my own, and that is fun also, of course...

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 7 Jul 2023 10:00 am

Steve, we all have preferences for how to learn. Either something is useful and helps you or it isn’t and doesn’t. This online advice forum for steel guitar is no less of an app than Steel Sidekick. They are both indispensable tools (for me anyway) based on graphic user interfaces. It’s just a case of different strokes, and I respect that.

J Fletcher · Post by **J Fletcher** » 7 Jul 2023 11:22 am

You could get some tab for some Buddy Emmons' intros , fills and solos , and this would give you insight into how these strings are used . The early Ray Price stuff with Buddy Emmons would demonstrate the use of these strings . Good luck .

Dale Rottacker · Post by **Dale Rottacker** » 8 Jul 2023 6:16 am

I couldn't play E9th withOUT the 9th string or the 7th, but without doubt the 9th string. I use it as a root and for me GOTTA have for playing C6th on E9th. I love that string so much I lower it in 3 different places and raise it in another.

Samples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKztgCmpKg8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPpZ_MUV818

Justin Shaw · Post by **Justin Shaw** » 8 Jul 2023 8:13 am

I use the 7 and 9 strings at the same time in the +2 frets position where:

9 is E
7 is G#

This gives you another E (without the 5th B note), or if you add in the 10th string you get a C#m triad. You can then get a nice change from C#m to B by changing from the 9 to 8 string and letting the 10 and 7 strings just slide:

+2: 10,9,7
0: 10,8,7 Lowered Es

I also frequently use the 9th string for the E7 as I pass to the A chord. This is the secondary dominant idea so it doesn't fit in every context but I like that gospel-type harmony.

As a general rule, if you find yourself not using a string or pedal or lever, consider those things in other positions on the neck. Or of course ask around as you have done!

Steve Lipsey · Post by **Steve Lipsey** » 8 Jul 2023 9:56 pm

OK...Here's what I've got so far for everything, chords and transitions, with strings 1,2,7,9 featured....I'll get to the extended chords after these are all baked into me...thanks, all!

Pedal Steel Moves
Min: I:B+RKL IIm:C IIIm:LKR Vm:s5,2,1+½RKR Vm:s10,9,7 VIm:A
Maj: IV:AB V:LKR+RKL I:s5,2,1+RKL V:s5,2,1 VI:A+LKL bVII:s9,7,6B
7th: I7:+s7or I7:s2+½RKR VI7:LKL IV7:AB+RKL V7:B+LKR+all ex s9
Dim: pd-2,-1:LKL IV(I=+1fr):s1,2,3+B Ma7:LKR V6th:LKR
Chrom:up,dn+RKR, Unison:s1,3+s2,4:RKL s4,1:C Run:IVs4->9+B>B+A+RKR
V>V7:LKR+RKL>B+LKR V>V7:s5,2,1>s5,2,1+B V>I:5,2,1>5,2,1+RKL
IV>IV7:AB>AB+RKL IV>IV7:AB>B+LKR,-2f VI>VI7:A+LKL>LKL
I>Vim:AB+s8>s7 pdI>IV>V:ABs8,6,5>ABs9,7,6>s8,6,5

George Biner · Post by **George Biner** » 9 Jul 2023 1:41 pm

I recommend putting in a whole step raise on the 7th string, usually actuated by the RKL lever -- now the 7th string acts like another "A" pedal. Also get an easy unison with the 6th string.

Paul Strojan · Post by **Paul Strojan** » 13 Jul 2023 5:55 pm

I have been working my way through the Don Helms book trying to fake my way playing E6 on an E9 pedal steel. When I need to play the 6th, 5th and 3rd of a chord, I move up the neck two frets, hit the B pedal and drop down a string.

Andrew Frost · Post by **Andrew Frost** » 14 Jul 2023 6:59 am

Those strings really open up the D6 sounds.
At fret 10, for easy comparison to C6, you could think of it like this:

B pedal action (like pedal 5)

5 A
6 G / F#
7 E
8 x
9 C
10 A

A pedal action ( like pedal 4 )

5 A-B
6 G
7 E
8 x
9 C
10 A - B

My sting 9D is on a lever (E9/B6) so occasionally I can't access specific combinations such as the full "faux pedal 4" example above, but I find the E9/B6 approach opens up more possibilities than it shuts down...
String 7 is crucial though for my uses. It is a key ingredient in a plethora of voicings and melodic phrases, and the tuning would be too homogenous and dense without it in my humble opinion...