C#m7 VS A tuning for Tricone

Jean-Sebastien Gauthier · Post by **Jean-Sebastien Gauthier** » 13 Jun 2023 2:38 pm

Hi guys, I have an acoustic Hawaiian project and we want to have a 20-30s swing feel. We want to have an Hawaiian repertoire and probably add some Dixie Land and gypsy swing tunes. I will play Tricone and tenor banjo.

I wonder if I would be better with high bass A or C#m7 tuning and what are the advantages. I really like Sol Hoopii and wanted that sound.

Thanks!

Allan Revich · Post by **Allan Revich** » 13 Jun 2023 9:02 pm

Quite a bit of info in this thread, https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=281635

Joe A. Roberts · Post by **Joe A. Roberts** » 14 Jun 2023 4:01 am

I love the old tunings with E C# G# E on top... They have a lot of versatility and have an unmistakable sound, especially with that forward slant on the top three strings.
Use the old Hawaiian E13th spelled E C# G# E D B (often called C#min7th) and you can retune to A high-bass fairly easily when needed, unlike the slightly earlier E C# G# E B E.
A high-bass has the advantage of major inversions of course, but also the licks from players like Sol Hoopii (pre 1934), Sol K. Bright, Bob Pauole and the rest of the first half century of the instruments history...

My Rose of Waikiki arranged by Andy Iona - E C# G# E D B (some cool slant tricks to pick up!)

Joe A. Roberts · Post by **Joe A. Roberts** » 14 Jun 2023 4:12 am

Also, anyone interested in this style should check this out, Christo Ruppenthal posted this clip on instagram today, awesome playing!
https://www.instagram.com/p/Ctc7NFsgMvP/?hl=en

David M Brown · Post by **David M Brown** » 14 Jun 2023 6:00 am

Joe A. Roberts wrote: Use the old Hawaiian E13th spelled E C# G# E D B (often called C#min7th) and you can retune to A high-bass fairly easily when needed, unlike the slightly earlier E C# G# E B E.

Good points, including the comment about the E C# G# E D B - which is also a quick retune to plain E7, E B G# E D B high - low.

The advantage of the older E C# G# E B E is that it can retune to the oldest tuning, A low bass, E C# A E A E, and open E, E B G# E B E. It depends on the sound the OP wants.

Mike Neer · Post by **Mike Neer** » 14 Jun 2023 9:11 am

I used C#min after learning on high bass for a while. There were some tracks I loved on this Vintage Hawaiian Music LP on Rounder Records, and they were in A. But I switched to C#min to play in a band and it was a good choice because I played a lot of rhythm guitar-type stuff.

I recorded a CD with the Moonlighters where all the tunes used either C#min or E, but on one tune I lowered the B string in the C#min to A#. It gave me a sort of F#9. I wrote this tune on it and still was able to play all the usually C#m stuff. I was a pretty new player back then.

https://blissblood.bandcamp.com/track/s ... cannonball

Christo Ruppenthal · Post by **Christo Ruppenthal** » 17 Jun 2023 3:49 am

Hi guys,

I’m on strong advocate for 11th tunings for Jazz is involved. And especially with Vintage/Gypsyjazz. (I’m personally in A11 right now because I like having a G triad on top.) The reason for this is that you have straight bar major and minor six cords along with dominant sounds, and even minor 7th voicings. That makes life a lot easier when it comes to really fast jazz lines! In fact, with the 11th tuning, depending on how you look at it, you’re actually have a 2 chord and a 5 chord on the same fret . Minor and major sixth chords are so prevalent in this Vintage Music. If you study Django‘s music closely at all your quickly discover that the sixth and ninth are such a core and color of his sound. When you get into slanting, then you can get really creative. Plus with the G of A triad on top, depending on which tuning you choose there’s a lot of licks you can still pull from Sol and other hot Hawaiian players.

I’m actually in the process of preparing to specifically do a record of Django style repertoire on Steel. It’s a work in progress!

Jouni Karvonen · Post by **Jouni Karvonen** » 17 Jun 2023 4:42 am

On A11:

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=183857

Tim Toberer · Post by **Tim Toberer** » 17 Jun 2023 5:11 am

This tuning (A11) sounds really great for chords, but kind of scares me for single note stuff. I guess having the G triad on top would make it familiar and most of what I play is on the top strings anyway. It is interesting seeing this tuning written in A cause I never realized it is just 2 major triads. It makes a lot more sense now. I am thinking about the 7 and 8 string versions , hmmm. I may have to try it!

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 17 Jun 2023 6:59 am

The original Hawaiian tuning was A high bass and I still use it.

Erv

David M Brown · Post by **David M Brown** » 17 Jun 2023 8:18 am

Erv Niehaus wrote:The original Hawaiian tuning was A high bass and I still use it.
Erv

I was under the impression the oldest steel tuning was A low bass.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 17 Jun 2023 8:20 am

Not according to what I've read.
Erv

David M Brown · Post by **David M Brown** » 17 Jun 2023 2:59 pm

Erv Niehaus wrote:Not according to what I've read.
Erv

It's what I've read for many years.

https://tinyurl.com/2nwt9sn2

from John ely's page

"The A major low bass was the first steel guitar tuning ever, developed by Joseph Kekuku in the 1890s."

http://www.simonboxes.com/history-of-lap-steel.html

"The earliest Hawaiian lap steel tuning was A low bass, E A E A C# E."

from the Hawaiian steel Guitar Association:

https://hsga.org/history-of-steel-guitar/

" It was originally tuned A Major low bass (1-6) E.C#.A.E.A.E, which has three strings tuned the same as the Spanish guitar."

Jean-Sebastien Gauthier · Post by **Jean-Sebastien Gauthier** » 19 Jun 2023 6:37 am

Thanks a lot for the reply guys! I think tricione will be my thing this summer!

I like the idea of the E C# G# E D B tuning Joe A. Roberts, thanks for the arrangement!

I tuned to that C#m7th and A high Bass. I also have a Dobro tuned to G so I can cover a lot of stuff.

Mike Neer, that Moonlighters is very cool! That and your music Christo Ruppenthal is exactly where I want to go with this project!

I will probably try A11 at some point.

Jean-Sebastien Gauthier · Post by **Jean-Sebastien Gauthier** » 19 Jun 2023 10:42 am

Sebastian Müller wrote:I use both tunings on my Tricone and elctric steel, I use the Sol K Bright version of C#minor G# C# E G# C# E (low to Hi), that way you cover a lot of ground, with the same guitar and the same string set. Very powerful in my opinion.

That make sens Sebastien! What strings brand/gauge do you use?

Jean-Sebastien Gauthier · Post by **Jean-Sebastien Gauthier** » 22 Jun 2023 5:18 am

Thanks Sebastian, I started to learn you material from YouTube and have lot of fun!

Miles Lang · Post by **Miles Lang** » 16 Jul 2023 7:49 am

Christo Ruppenthal wrote:Hi guys,

I’m on strong advocate for 11th tunings for Jazz is involved. And especially with Vintage/Gypsyjazz. (I’m personally in A11 right now because I like having a G triad on top.) The reason for this is that you have straight bar major and minor six cords along with dominant sounds, and even minor 7th voicings. That makes life a lot easier when it comes to really fast jazz lines! In fact, with the 11th tuning, depending on how you look at it, you’re actually have a 2 chord and a 5 chord on the same fret . Minor and major sixth chords are so prevalent in this Vintage Music. If you study Django‘s music closely at all your quickly discover that the sixth and ninth are such a core and color of his sound. When you get into slanting, then you can get really creative. Plus with the G of A triad on top, depending on which tuning you choose there’s a lot of licks you can still pull from Sol and other hot Hawaiian players.

I’m actually in the process of preparing to specifically do a record of Django style repertoire on Steel. It’s a work in progress!

I play in A11 at least 90% of the time. It’s my go-to soloing neck, as well. Spent a lot of years playing Le Jazz Manouche - coincidence?

My other neck is Santo’s C#m7 tuning