ZB Pedal Steel Guitars - Please help!

Lyle Clary · Post by **Lyle Clary** » 3 Feb 2005 9:04 am

Duncan brings up an interesting point about the sounds of the early ZB Customs. I am tickled to death with the sound on my E9th neck but don't get the full C6th sound that I hear on other guitars. I admit I use the c neck very little. I have even adjusted the screws to make them closer to the strings. Yes I say to the un-informed you can raise and lower screws under each string on the pickups of these guitars. I am not aware of when they started and stopped this feature. Did other makes have this feature? Any ideas on how to improve the tone. I have tried new strings. Maybe it is my pickin technique.

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 3 Feb 2005 9:11 am

Lyle, that's funny. I was wondering the same about my E9 neck. My C6 neck is incredible. The bottom end is simply out of this world.

But the E9 pickup is not nearly as strong. It sounds great, just not nearly as responsive as the C6.

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MCI D10 8+5, ZB 11/10 8+3 Early 30s Dobro, Harmony Lap Steel, ad infinitum

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 3 Feb 2005 9:19 am

Same with my guitar guys. I had greg Jones put the stronger pickup on the E9 and it sounds great. The C6 is weak. It's a 35 year old guitar so I'm eventually going to have jerry Wallace rewind the C6 pickup.

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Dave Zirbel-
ZB Custom D-10 8 x 5, S-12U Kline 7 x6, Dobro Cyclops reissue, 1967 Fender Telecaster, Webb 6-14E, Fender Super Reverb, PV NV112
The Mother Truckers
The Cowlicks

Larry Chung · Post by **Larry Chung** » 3 Feb 2005 11:26 am

Hiya Dave and Lyle and Duncan and everybody else:

I'm home sick today with the flu, and just read the preceding posts. I'll say, as the owner of several ZBs, that the pickups definitely are individual and different on each and every guitar. I find that both pickups on my oldest ZB (1967) are clear and away the warmest and thickest sounding of the lot, regardless of neck. I think Greg Jones told me a while ago that the early ZB pickups (Scranton) were handwound by Zane on an old fashioned winder. Which, if true, may account for the different sound(s) from that era. Just like the 50s Fender stuff that I love, too.

FYI - I try not to adjust my pickups too close to the strings, as they can actually diminish the ability of the strings to vibrate and sustain - an old Telecaster trick - they're magnets, after all. My suggestion - if you want a warmer tone, use the amp settings, rather than the pickup or polepiece height. This may be difficult in a performance setting with only one amp, so maybe an EQ pedal if you're switching back and forth?

Dave's right - the pickups will get weaker as they age, and become more microphonic, too. I read earlier in this thread that the pickups were wound to different impedences over the years, which I'm sure also affects the overall sound. But they all sound good to me! And they all have that ZB-thang.

One more thing - carefully make sure that there are as few loose parts on the guitar as possible. Including the screws that keep the whole guitar together and (especially) the legs and pedal bar. From my days in the banjo-playing world - loose parts eat vibrations and tone. I set up my S-11 a couple of years ago and made sure all of the pull rods and nuts and screws and parts were snug (but not super tight), and I noticed an improvement in sustain and overtones. I regularly check this on all my guitars, especially when the weather changes.

ZBest (cough),
LC

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Larry Chung
'67 ZB D-10 8+4 (ser. #1077)
'69 ZB S-10 3+4 (ser. #0124)
'70 ZB D-10 8+4 (ser.# 0215)
'71 ZB Custom S-11 4+4 (ser. #0252)

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 3 Feb 2005 6:57 pm

Hey Larry, feel better. Thanks again for starting this madness of a post. I'm just sorry that Jeep took what should be our motto..."It's a ZB thing, you wouldn't understand." If you're not doing better soon, I'll send you some vitamins and phytonutrients. Codeine works good on coughs.
Duncan

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 4 Feb 2005 3:09 pm

CRIMPING ENDPLATE TUNERS. This is just a little tip to keep your guitar from drifting out of tune. The end plate tuners on a ZB need to be slightly crimped in order for them to remain snug on the threaded tuning finger. You can do this by unscrewing the small black enplate tuner, taking a pair of standard needle nose pliers, and putting the tuner into the cutting jaws of the needle nose about halfway from the end of the tuner. Just slight pressure and a slight crimp is all you need to put a snug fit on the tuner when its screwed back in. Be careful not to over crimp because if you do and the tuner is too tight on the finger you can twist the threaded portion of the tuning finger off on the inside of the end plate. Then your REALLY screwed! This crimp will give you just enough of a snug fit to keep the tuner from drifting off.
Loose end plate tuners are a classic on a ZB guitar. Once they are crimped and snug when you screw them back in they won't go anywhere
and the tuner will be stabilized.[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 04 February 2005 at 03:10 PM.]

John Rutledge · Post by **John Rutledge** » 4 Feb 2005 6:52 pm

Dear Larry;
I sure hope you are feeling better. I just wanted to let you know that I sent the literature I told you I would send you on ZB's and accessories that I have. These are copies so you can keep them. I also sent you copies of pictures that Jim Murphy had sent us when he was playing at the Cow Palace with Loretla Lynn. Look at the pictures good and you will see that the lead guitar player is playing a Mosrite. you don't have to send a answer just get well. hopeing for the best John Rutledge.

Pat Kelly · Post by **Pat Kelly** » 5 Feb 2005 4:36 pm

Thanks to Kevin,
I was just about to ask for some info on a loose endplate adjustment screw.

Pat Kelly

Henry Nagle · Post by **Henry Nagle** » 5 Feb 2005 10:37 pm

I've used thread locking stuff on ZB endplate tuners. Works great. I'd be pretty nervous about messing with the threads. Threadlocker is that stuff you use when working on cars. You can get it at any auto parts store. It's usually in a blue tube although it comes in different strengths.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 5 Feb 2005 11:37 pm

With all due respect to Kevin, I wouldn't advocate crimping the tuning screws, as too much pressure will cause binding on the threaded rod that is attached to the changer finger, with major problems if said threaded rod breaks. Use blue Loctite instead; it will hold but it does not set firm.
R B

John Rutledge · Post by **John Rutledge** » 8 Feb 2005 12:01 pm

Your never to old to learn. I thought I could clean and oil my steel, Put new strings on it, Tune it and start playing. It doesn't work that way. After fifteen years of not playing the steel I couldn't even tune it. I use to tune the steels by useing a tuning fork then useing harmorics. I tried to tune my steel and I had to use a tuning chart. I have played a 6st. guitar sence 1956 so I know to tune them, But the steel is someting else. the steel guitar is still my favorite instrument. John Rutledge

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 8 Feb 2005 6:34 pm

Bobbe Seymour has a 1967 ZB that sure looks pretty from the top on his website. The price looks good too. Phil Morgan take note.
Duncan

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 8 Feb 2005 8:28 pm

I just got my 70's ZB amp out of the electronic tech's shop. It sounds very similar to an Evans. Nice sounding amp. 2-12's speakers. It was cleaned out and checked on the scope. 100 watts. Made by Risson for ZB according to Allen Douglas.[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 08 February 2005 at 08:30 PM.]

Lyle Clary · Post by **Lyle Clary** » 9 Feb 2005 9:27 am

Hey Larry, some day we will change the subject and talk 5 string banjos. I have one but finding the rolls kind of foreign to this steeler.[This message was edited by Lyle Clary on 09 February 2005 at 09:28 AM.]

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 9 Feb 2005 10:04 am

Lyle, I had the same problem with the banjo when I got one. I gave up, put it away and then 2 years later we had a long break between sets at a show we were doing at an amusement park and I picked up our banjo player's banjo and there it was! The roll came out of nowhere. I think the best thing is to just forget that there is any relationship between steel pickin' and banjo pickin'.

Webb

Chuck McGill · Post by **Chuck McGill** » 15 Feb 2005 4:03 am

Duncan it looks like I have another ZB. The
67 Bobbe had is mine. I picked it up Monday.
The Maple is great and the guitar is like
Bobbe says original.Parts of the guitar look
unplayed. I will be working on my set-up this
week but she needs nothing sound wise.

Duncan Hodge · Post by **Duncan Hodge** » 15 Feb 2005 4:13 pm

Chuck, you did it again. You are a ZB magnet. I thought it looked like a pretty one in Bobbe's window. This time I'm not even jealous. I love the one that I just got from Greg. By the way, are you still looking for a guy to make some rods for your U-12? I know a guy here in Florida who bought a 1967 ZB, basically in a box, and has rebuilt it from the ground up. It sounds great too.
Enjoy the new ZB, Duncan

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 19 Feb 2005 1:40 pm

Another ZB tip. Check your fret boards for accuracy. Measure from the middle of the changer axle to the middle of the 12th fret. It should be exactly 12" (1/2 the 24" scale). Then set the axle on the rollers 12" from that point. My ZB fret boards were literally 1/8 of an inch off in opposite directions when I got my guitar! I had to take them up and reset them. I actually set them 12" to the FRONT of the 12th fret instead of the middle. I have to sit to the left a little more on my guitar and I wanted the fret boards to be a 16th" to the right so that they peak out to the right a little more visually. [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 19 February 2005 at 01:41 PM.]

Roger Edgington · Post by **Roger Edgington** » 19 Feb 2005 5:05 pm

In the 60s and 70s I used to set in on a red and maple D-10 ZB that belonged to Frank Tippy in Cols,Ohio. I'm sure Frank bought it new probably from Sonny Curtis music store. Frank would see me come in and start grinning and tuning up the C neck. Only problem was, I'm short and Frank was as tall as a basket ball player. He had the tallest pedal steel I have ever seen. Don't know where it is today, probably under a bed somewhere.

Rick McDuffie · Post by **Rick McDuffie** » 19 Feb 2005 6:42 pm

The ZB thread RULES!

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 26 Feb 2005 8:58 am

How many of you ZB pickers have a wound 6th (G#) string on the E9 neck? Does it require more pedal travel? What are the advantages?

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Dave Zirbel-
ZB Custom D-10 8 x 5, S-12U Kline 7 x6, Dobro Cyclops reissue, 1967 Fender Telecaster, Webb 6-14E, Fender Super Reverb, PV NV112
The Mother Truckers
The Cowlicks

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 26 Feb 2005 9:38 am

I use a wound sixth, Dave.
There is, of course, a lot more travel needed at the changer, so modifications have to be made to the rodding arrangements to minimse pedal/knee lever travel.
The advantage of using a wound sixth is that cabinet drop is not so apparent, and tuning stability of the sixth string is much improved.
If you drop the sixth a full tone, as I do, it can be tricky getting the lower finger to give the travel necessary. I had to take the tuning screw off at the endplate and use a knee lever stop to tune the lower.
R B

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 26 Feb 2005 9:50 am

I tune all my thirds -15. I tune my 6th string -10 instead of -15. That way when you push the A pedal and you get some drop on the 6th you still sound in tune. -10 still sounds in tune and you don't have to deal with the wound sixth issues. I have NO cabinet drop on the E's on my ZB.

Larry Chung · Post by **Larry Chung** » 26 Feb 2005 11:29 am

You ZB folks are awesome! Thanks for keeping this thread going on, and on, and on - thanks bOb for keeping the thread going, too. It's gotta be alot of memory on your server...

A string gauge hint that was given to me by ZB Guru and Grand Poobah Greg Jones - use a .016 instead of a .017 for the 5th string (B to C#) raise. It really smoothes out the pedal action on both the A and C pedals. I keep a healthy stash of .016s in my cases, just in case!

All ZBest as always,
Larry

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Larry Chung
'67 ZB D-10 8+4 (ser. #1077)
'69 ZB S-10 3+4 (ser. #0124)
'70 ZB D-10 8+4 (ser.# 0215)
'71 ZB Custom S-11 4+4 (ser. #0252)

[This message was edited by Larry Chung on 26 February 2005 at 11:29 AM.]

Bob Simmons · Post by **Bob Simmons** » 28 Feb 2005 6:49 am

Here's a project. I have D10 #1068 it's been refinished by Ray Walker and has brand new case. I'm short on time to re-assemble. Just need to do a little polishing and put together. email me or call, Bob 205-647-6400