Flat tone bar...why?

Tony Palmer · Post by **Tony Palmer** » 19 Mar 2007 10:09 am

I've always had this old tone bar but can't see what the appeal is.
Is it strictly for hawaaian?

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 19 Mar 2007 12:39 pm

I use one occaisionally for rock stuff, just makes me approach things differently. Rick Aiello uses them a lot, I can see why.

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 19 Mar 2007 2:30 pm

For me ... it's all about vibrato.

But lately I've been playin' slant bar style ... so it's back to my 2 3/4" x 3/4" bullet

John Dahms · Post by **John Dahms** » 19 Mar 2007 4:04 pm

I have my favorites that I usually use,but,I use many different slides for different reasons. This style Elton is great for very fast passages.
It's a little light for the tone I like but Rick A. does not seem to have that problem.
Sometimes it's fun to try to use old bars to see how "they" did it back then.

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 19 Mar 2007 4:52 pm

I guess if it works for you, it works for you. But how ya gonna move across the strings smoothly?

Bob Hickish · Post by **Bob Hickish** » 19 Mar 2007 6:47 pm

Tony
That bar is part of the progress / evolution / of the Steel guitar
That is what you would call second generation Hawaiian guitar
bar . The first generation was a railroad spike

Hick

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 19 Mar 2007 10:20 pm

I speculate these were easy to make; compared to our shiny, heat-treated, chrome-plated UNOBTAINIUM bars today.

(use what you got)

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 20 Mar 2007 3:58 am

I guess if it works for you, it works for you. But how ya gonna move across the strings smoothly?

Simple ... you ease the edges with a belt sander, then sand, buff and polish ...

P'tah ... P'tah ... P'tah ... P'tah ... ..... P'taaannnngggg

name that tune ... & win a "Bullet-ized Flattie"

C. Brattain · Post by **C. Brattain** » 20 Mar 2007 5:15 am

Years ago the flat bar was used to train biginning students to hold the bar and then they go to a round bar after a while.

George Keoki Lake · Post by **George Keoki Lake** » 20 Mar 2007 9:31 am

I have a few of those olde flat bars, never use them. I suppose that back in the pre-electric days, they served their purpose. However, as Jeff pointed out, there is no way a person could do a fast run across the strings smoothly on an electric with that blunt end. If, for whatever physical reason, you are unable to hold onto a round bar, a far better solution than using that flat bar would be to locate one of those combination half-round bars (with the round end) and the flat 'handle'. I'm not sure if they are still produced but I'm sure they can still be found....or 'home made' at any machine shop.

Bill Creller · Post by **Bill Creller** » 20 Mar 2007 12:13 pm

I discovered a short time ago (in my "collection") that I still have my first bar. I made it when I was about 12 I think. It's a piece of 3/8 inch bar stock about 1 1/2 inches wide and 3 inches long.

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 20 Mar 2007 12:55 pm

However, as Jeff pointed out, there is no way a person could do a fast run across the strings smoothly on an electric with that blunt end.

Lucky for me ... the fastest song I play is Waipio

Bobby Koefer seems to do a decent job with one though ...

As does Roland Peachy in this Film Short ...

Hey, I just answered Mr. Palmer's question as to why I find them appealing ...

I'd never advocate the use of flatties to anyone ... especially minors ...

Don Kona Woods · Post by **Don Kona Woods** » 20 Mar 2007 10:59 pm

Do you think that Roland Peachy would have made that steel guitar sound even better with a round bar?

He does a good job with the flat bar that he has, but
Me thinks the sound would have been fuller, richer with a round bar. The flat bar tends to give a thinner sound. IMHO

Aloha,

Don

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 21 Mar 2007 4:36 am

Do you think that Roland Peachy would have made that steel guitar sound even better with a round bar?

Different yes ... better

The rationale that a heavier bar produces a bigger tone ... could be extended to .. say ... all 3/4" diameter bullet bar users ...

A 7/8" would sound bigger ...

A 15/16" would sound even bigger ...

A 1" would sound even bigger still ...

(L to R) Dia = 3/4" , 7/8" , 1" ... all 2 3/4" long

Paul Kim was using a tiny 5/8" diameter bar at Joliet ... would he have sounded better using a 1" bar of the same length.

Looks like the great Ralph Mooney is using a "cylinder bar" here in Dallas ...

He plays "lightnin' fast" across the strings

My point ...

Tools are just tools ... and the craftsman chooses the tool that he/she feels ... gets the job done ... to his/her satisfaction.

Delrin bars, Zirconia bars, Stevens bars, Powder Coated bars, Flatties ... Flatwound strings, Semi-flatwound strings, Nickel roundwound, Stainless roundwound ... Reverb effect, Delay effect, Distortion effect ... Tube amp, Solid state amp ... Horseshoe pickup, GeoL pickup, Charlie C. ... 1 pup per neck, 2 pickups per neck, ... Bakelite, Aluminum, Carbon fiber, Maple, Koa ... Pedals .... Yada, yada, yada ...

Personally, I always thought that "bullet bars" were used by players who wanted to compensate for bad technique ...
(Thats a joke)

Jeff Au Hoy · Post by **Jeff Au Hoy** » 21 Mar 2007 5:28 am

Wow I didn't know that Paul used a bar like that. I wonder if he and I use the same kind of bar. I use a 5/8" diameter, 2 7/8" long Nick Manoloff.

John Bushouse · Post by **John Bushouse** » 21 Mar 2007 9:50 am

So, does anyone have a bar like the 2nd from the bottom or the bottom one in the 2nd column for sale? I've done some looking on eBay, but I've nevre found one like either of those.

(Thanks for making a pic of your collection available, Rick!)

Tony, in other words, I'll buy your bar if you want to sell...

Vince Luke · Post by **Vince Luke** » 21 Mar 2007 10:45 am

I wondered if maybe those evolved from (or were the commercial versions of) knife blades or other "found" items used to play steel. They look to me like they'd be awkward to handle, being so tall and skinny, but that video clip shows that's certainly not the case. Pretty cool footage there--I especially like the way they keep cutting/wiping back to the steeler when he does a lick. That's quality editing.

Vince

Todd Weger · Post by **Todd Weger** » 21 Mar 2007 6:15 pm

John -- I have an Elton flattie that I don't use. I personally don't care for 'em. My email is tweger@tampabay.rr.com, if you're interested. It needs a cleanup, and might even benefit from a re-plating. I have no clue what they're worth.

Anyone know?

TJW

Rick Abbott · Post by **Rick Abbott** » 3 May 2023 8:33 am

I just watched this video and it reminded me of this thread.

Here's a guy using a flat bar. The tone and touch are undeniable...Don Helms on a cabinet-end Sho~Bud.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dXdTAUWM-4

Jouni Karvonen · Post by **Jouni Karvonen** » 3 May 2023 10:27 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA0UlbC ... ZGJlbnQ%3D

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 3 May 2023 10:51 am

https://youtu.be/w6Jh5g2pRv8

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Flat tone bar...why?

Flat tone bar...why?

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