ZumSteel - Problem With 3 Pulls On One Knee Lever

Daniel Vorp · Post by **Daniel Vorp** » 26 Mar 2023 9:47 am

E9th
Raising 1st string F# to G#
Raising 2nd string D# to E
Lowering 6th string G# to F#

I time the engagement of the 2nd and 6th strings to provide a 1/2 stop for the 1st string and also split tune the 6th string lower.

I've had this working on 2 different guitars before, a Zum and a Ritt.

Attempting to set it up again on a ZumSteel and can't get 1st string to pull at all?

Anybody understand what might be the problem?

Thanks for any constructive ideas.

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 26 Mar 2023 7:46 pm

From your description of the problem. Here is some things to consider.
If you are using a .013P for the 1st string with a , And a .015P for the 2nd string. And a (???.020W or .20P) for the 6th string.

My first suggestion is, Back the changes off on 2nd and 6th string.
Since a small string pulls further to reach its note, And the 1st string is a full note raise. Adjust the pull and set the stops for 1st string. Then tune the 2nd string.
Then go to the 6th string lower and work on it.

If the 6th string you are using is wound, And will not make the full lower, You may have to go to a .020P string. To get the quicker lower to make the 3 strings work in unison.

Good luck finding the problem, And the cure. Happy Steelin.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 27 Mar 2023 12:46 am

I misread your post, if the 1st string is not pulling at all, something is a miss. It should pull CLOSE to the desired pull if not all the way.

Not long ago, on my Legrande II, one of the pulls, can't recall which one, was not making the full pull, each time out it was getting just ever so worse, a little at a time. I would spend time seeking the cause, tuning-retuning etc- looking at the underside etc...until one day I just decided to grab the Allen wrench and start tightening things !

To make a long boring story short, the bell crank was ever so slightly loose on the shaft. A simple 1/4 turn on the set screw and all was well.

If the 1st string is not pulling at all, something mechanically is amiss. Back off strings 2 and 6, all the way, see whats up with #1. Changer finger, stuck finger, bell crank loose, rod loose . It should do something !

When a Pedal or Lever with multiple pulls has an issue with one, ALWAYS back out all the pulls and re-adjust the problem PULL 1st to confirm that its not a mechanical issue.

Daniel Vorp · Post by **Daniel Vorp** » 27 Mar 2023 3:07 am

Thanks for your input guys. I'll give it a whirl and let you know how it goes.

Using a .020 plain wound on 6th string.

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 27 Mar 2023 3:46 am

Something in the changer might be broken, lowering finger might move when not supposed to(improper tension on retrun spring), pull rod on 1st string might not have sufficient travel to perform the raise.

Will the 1st string raise a full tone if you gently press/engage the raise finger with a small screwdriver?
Make sure lowering finger doesnt move when pushing the raise finger. Return spring should hold the lowering fingewr in place.

If it does raise a full tone then there is something with the pullrod and hole locations between raise finger and location from the cross-shaft that is not correct.

The movement of the knee lever needs to be twice the amount required to lower your 6th string a full tone from G#-F# since you are using the first half of the knee-lever's movement to raise 1st string F#-G.

I would adjust the full raise on the 1st string first according to what length of movement feels comfortable for the knee that is gonna engage the lever that raise F#-G-G#

Then adjust the timing and length of movement on the pullrod on the 2nd string so the feel stop is at the correct place while also pulling string 2 D#-E for the remainder of the movement.

Then adjust location of pull rod that is gonna lower string 6.
Once you set the start point of the lowering to match startpoint of 2nd string w the nylon tuner for the 6th string lower, do not further tweak that nylon tuner.
If 6th string doesnt lower all the way down to F#(option is to check for the G note w B pedal pressed) then you need to move pullrod to a different location to get more movement of the pullrod or the lowering finger.
If the lowering goes slightly below F# this can be fixed by adjusting the lower limit screw(also called split tuning screw by some)

Timing everything to get a G note on the 6th string split w the B pedal might be a little trial and error in order not to mess up the halfstop feel. Not impossible but it might take a little extra tweaking to find the correct positions for the pullrod.

Crossing my fingers that something isnt broken in the mechanics of the raise/lower mechanism on your guitar. The ZumSteel I have is not difficult to adjust/modify at all. Hope yours is just as easy to adjust/modify.

Some of the rods under my guitar have a (moveable)brass collar w setscrew that seem to act as a release stop for some levers. Make sure those collars(if they are on your guitar) doesnt interfere with the raise mechanism on string 1

Bengt Erlandsen
ZumSteel S12extE9 7+7

Daniel Vorp · Post by **Daniel Vorp** » 28 Mar 2023 1:20 pm

Success! As suggested, backed off of the 2nd string pull and 6th string lower and just worked on the 1st string pull. That approach got it working, then added the 2nd string pull and lastly the 6th string lower. Very tricky, a lot of trial and error choosing which bell crank holes to use, Zum has 6, and also which changer position of the triple raise triple lower to use in order to achieve the half stop for the 1st string raise. Got the 2nd and 6th string engaging at the exact same time achieving a half stop for the 1st string pull which is not perfect, just a little sharp but so close it doesn't offend the ear. A very slight bar slant takes care of it.

Thank you guys for your willingness to consider the problem and share your ideas.

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 28 Mar 2023 7:47 pm

Good to hear, You found the problem and got the problem worked out.
Happy Steelin.

Bengt Erlandsen · Post by **Bengt Erlandsen** » 29 Mar 2023 3:43 am

Glad to hear something wasnt broken in the changer.

To remedy the small issue with 1st string beeing slightly sharp you might need relocate the pull rod for the 1st string to another of the holes at the changer and maybe also change position at the cross-shaft for the same rod. That rod would need a little more movement than what it already have from the not engaged lever to engaged lever position.

If seemingly impossible to get that halfstop at the correct spot you might try a sligtly different gauge 1st string. That might do the trick.

Last solution would be to manufacture a slightly offset bellcrank with what seems like in-between slots compared to the rest of the bellcrank-slots.

Best of luck getting setup to where guitar plays exactly as wanted.

Bengt Erlandsen
Zumsteel S12extE9 7+7