New Excel 12 String D13 Keyless Pedal Steel Guitar

[Roger Rettig]

That's some undertaking, Greg! Very well done.

I'm enjoying your audio samples, too. What a great tuning!

[Greg Cutshaw]

Thanks Roger! More low string sounds and a bit of weirdness:


More Low String Sounds 2

[Greg Cutshaw]

More Tips and Tricks

One thing you will notice about the 2nd string is that it is tuned to C and can be lowered or raised a half step via RKL and RKR. This works great for having the dominate 7th note handy and for licks that use the C# note or even need to raise the 2nd string to C# and then lower it a whole tone to B (ala Weldon Myrick). But you can also tune the 2nd string to C# and still raise and lower it a half tone! Lowering it then gives you the dominant 7th note and raising it gives you the unison 4th string D note, a nice riff in itself. The first sound sample below shows this in action along with an example of the extended lower register and another low string novelty riff that rocks the RVR on and off. Note that you will have to retune the knee levers slightly.

Note that RKR and RKL have not changed function. They still raise and lower the 2nd string a half tone. And you can easily retune the 2nd string open up and down as needed. This idea also works great on a standard E9th tuning. You can leave the 2nd string at C# and use bar movement to simulate raising the 2nd string to D while lowering the 4th string but it doesn't sound as smooth to my ears.


Second Tuned Open to C Sharp

[Greg Cutshaw]

Another sound bite featuring E9th and C6 sounds right alongside each other. I gotta get more pointed slippers for playing at home. You can hear me fumbling a bit with the pedals. The B to C change on LVK gives you a nice open dominant 7th chord. RKR is used a lot in the opening chords similar to the E9th 9th sting lower of D to C#.

Mixed E9th and C6 Sounds

[Roger Rettig]

Sounds super! I've always wanted that old P7 move available on my E9. I know I can get the notes, but not smoothly like that.

Good hybrid demo. Greg.

[Greg Cutshaw]

Still learning the new grips. Here's a snippet of Green Light that really uses a lot of the old sounds with new string grips:

Green Light Snippet

[Greg Cutshaw]

Latest copedant with the 2nd string changed from a C to a C#. Notice that the RKR and RKL knee levers also change that string to C and D but require no physical changes since they are still just raising and lowering the (now C#) string a half tone.

(left click for full size picture)

[Larry Dering]

Sounds awesome Greg.

[Roger Rettig]

I really want my 'old P5' adjacent to my A pedal (I'm 'Day', so that's #3); that way, I can still get that split-tuned note by raising the A string (6th) and bringing it back a half-step with my new P4 (old #5).

I would also like the change you have at P4 - could that work as P1 if I added an eighth pedal. It'd be nest to my C pedal.

I could put 'old P5' on RKL, I suppose, but that's a trade-off.

[Greg Cutshaw]

Thanks Larry!

Roger, I've made a bunch of changes to Johnny's original copedant and possibly have lost some of the useful combinations that he designed into the pedal/knee lever placements. However I've yet to find anything that I can't play from either old E9/C6 tuning. Since I don't yet understand all the new possibilities with D13 it is risky to change without understanding all that is there. With the Excel everything is easily changed back if needed later.

[Roger Rettig]

I'm assured that my forthcoming Williams is also easy to make changes on.

I'm still pondering losing the old 1,2,7 raise (1,2,8 on D13) as it's more of a lick-pedal than a useful shift. I'm just accustomed to having it on my D10.

I know that I mustn't interfere with JC's RKR - that's the magic pedal that enables many of the C6-type combinations.

RKL is a different story. I can no longer recall how I decided upon raising 1,5,11 (to F,C,B respectively)!! I need to go back over my notes; there must have been a good reason back when I was pondering it all (with b0b's valuable input) several hours a day.

I confess that I haven't yet seen the significance of your (JC's?) LKV.

At the moment, my LKV is to be the same as your P4, but now I want to raise the middle A to a C on LKV. I still want the '6th to G' and the '12th to E', though. It may mean an eighth pedal (at #1).

It's so hard to be rational without the guitar in front of me! You've already made several changes so doubtless I will, too.

[Greg Cutshaw]

LKV is crucial. it's the equivalent, for one thing, one raising the A to Bb on the standard C6 Tuning. It also gives you a dominant 7th on the open tuning. There's more but I can't recall right now.

[Greg Cutshaw]

A Fool Such As I done in both E9th and C6 style. I just couldn't work the pedal switches fast enough yet on this one so I had to piece a few cuts together.

A Fool Such As I

[Greg Cutshaw]

Sweet Dreams with a few variations:


Sweet Dreams

[Baron Collins-Hill]

Thanks for this in depth look at your new steel! I found your original Excel review instrumental in figuring out if it's right for me, and ended up finding a great deal on a 14 string Superb that I'm in the process of figuring out my own copedent for.

My current thought experiment is what to do with the extra 2 strings I have at hand, a sort of "extended D13th" tuning if you wish. I could add low F# and C# strings into string 13 and 11 positions respectively. Also potentially borrowing the missing D natural on 10 from U12 for a more parallel feel across the extended range (a repeating E F# G# B C# from 14 ending with the C# on 5).

I'm also trying to minimize knee levers and pedals, and maybe those low additions from the 14 would help. A sort of "What would Lloyd do if he played D13" mentality. I'd love to pair the knees down to just 5 to avoid doubling any single direction, and getting the floors down to 7 would be nice too.

In terms of the instrument itself, have you heard from Mitsuo about things that have changed or come across anything else yourself? Are the splits adjusted in the same way as the older models?

I look forward to continuing to follow along with your journey.

Thanks!
Baron

[Greg Cutshaw]

Baron, the splits are still those tiny little set screws located on the fretboard side of the changer.

How many knees and pedals are on the 14 string Excel you bought? Be nice to see pics of it. I'm sure you've looked over Julian Thorpe's 14 string tuning by now. I saw him play that with Barbara Mandrell and somehow he didn't fumble over any of those strings n his way to blowing the audience away.

I think the high strings are in pretty good shape and the chromatic strings on top (re-entrant, there I said it) are pretty well set. Too many of those and it's like playing a harp. At times it seems the simpler 10 string C6 tuning allows for nice thumb strums where you don't have to avoid hitting certain strings for like a 9th chord.

Post some charts of what you come up with but look closely at the D13 setup as a lot of thought and trial error went into that copedant and it could avoid a lot of mistakes and reinventing the wheel.

[Roger Rettig]

Greg:

Can you see a problem with me putting your P4 at the 0 pedal position (ie: next to my C pedal - I play 'Day'). Would I lose anything (as far as you can tell so far) by isolating that pedal on the far left?

I'm going to opt for 8 pedals but I need to keep the 'old C6 P5'(now my P4) adjacent to my A pedal so I can get the split-tuned note on the 6th string.

I propose that my pedals will be 0 (your p4), C, B, A, then pedals 5 to 8 as you have them.

Sorry if this is a bit long-winded!

[Greg Cutshaw]

Roger, I've not explored this tuning enough to know the impact of your suggested changes or even the ones I've made. I did start with it exactly as Johnny Cox designed it and played with it a bit before changing anything. Even if I've lost a few pedal combinations this tuning as I now have it gives me a full E9th with enough C6 stuff thrown in to keep me happy.

[Roger Rettig]

Greg

I, of course, started with JC's concept but adapted some changes to more closely resemble what I have now on my 8 + 9 D10.

Losing my favourite KL (lowering the Bs on E9) means that I need old p5 next to my A (3rd) pedal as I described. Johnny says he half-pedals that split so doesn't mind not having it.

Thanks for all the info so far. At some point I must take the plunge and commit to a plan. No doubt I'll be making changes just as you have done.

[Greg Cutshaw]

Here's my latest sound file, Excel D13 played through a Quilter Travis Toy 15 combo amp:

https://www.gregcutshaw.com/Quilter%20L ... 20Loop.mp3

I normally use the E9th B to Bb knee lever to get the 7b9 chord at 0:06 seconds but was able to smoothly get the same thing using the equivalent of the E to D# knee lever and the G# to A floor pedal.

I used to use the Bb knee lever to get diminished chords by splitting the E9th 5th string but have found that just playing a full diminished chord using pedals 5 and 6 is just as useful if not as conveninent in some modes.

[Roger Rettig]

I've removed the A to Ab (B to Bb) lower on my new setup - I'm pinning my hopes on pedals 4 and 5 (in my case).

I'm slightly concerned that I don't have the D equivalent of the C6th's A to Ab lower. It's tricky seeing this in my mind's eye/ear without the guitar in front of me.

I have decided to add your P4, but as another pedal in the zero position.

[Greg Cutshaw]

More copedant changes. Changed the second string back to C as I play a lot of the Weldon Myrick stuff.

I swapped LKL-O with RKL. HUGE difference in playability and puts the more often used knee lever in a more accessible spot.

Still have the Emmons setup but am starting to see the pitfalls of that on this tuning because it puts P1 a long ways from P5 for E9th stuff.

I spent a few days playing this tuning as a non-pedal and it really helps one understand what the base tuning provides. Not just for single strings but for 7th and 13th chords and a few more things.

[Roger Rettig]

I have decided to go with the C on the 2nd.

Johnny's latest seminar from the TX show has convinced me that, although it'll take some getting used to, it's logical.

I play Day anyway which is a big plus for this tuning. .

Thanks for updating yours: it's interesting following your journey.

[Greg Cutshaw]

The new RKL is more usable but it does negate using the RKL and RKR together for the Franklin change on the lower strings.

[Greg Cutshaw]

Here's a few more sounds recorded direct from the Tone Block 202 that show some versatility on the low strings, no pedals, the LKL-O (lowering string 5) and a Chalker like riff using the LKV.


No Pedals - one bar slant

Chalker riff using LKV

Pedal 4

Pedal 4 plus LKL-O

Detroit City!