Identical Instruments, Different Sound

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

I have two identical Sho-Bud Crossovers, but they sound different. (The pickups are the originals.) If I take the cord from one and plug it into the other without changing the amplifier settings the tone changes significantly.

Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon ?

It makes it a little difficult to discuss which brands have the best tone when two identical instruments can sound different....

Kevin Hatton · From: Buffalo, N.Y.

All Sho-Bud Crosovers sound like Sho-Bud Crossovers. I've played a few and heard others.

Bobby Bowman · From: Cypress, Texas, USA, R.I.P.

Kevin,
Reread the man's post. It couldn't be stated any plainer. Sure either one of them sound like a SB Crossover because they are in fact crossovers,,,,but they still sound different from each other. What's so hard about that?

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If you play 'em, play 'em good!
If you build 'em, build 'em good!
http://www.bobbybowman.com

Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

The instruments are made of wood. Unless both of them are made out of wood from the same board then there is one difference you can look at right there that would cause sonic differences.

Also the pickups may be wound in some sort of scatter pattern. There might be differences in the sound from pickup to pickup.

Just a thought

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Kevin, are you disputing Alan's observation?

Micky Byrne · From: United Kingdom (deceased)

Hi Alan, I totally agree with Bill Hatcher. I mentioned in an earlier thread a few weeks ago on sounds of identical steels sounding different, and mentioned when I was in a Steel guitar shop way back in 1984 in Minneapolis, and I strummed "Acoustically" several "identical" steels, Sho-Buds, Emmons etc etc,I noticed they all sounded different. Same thing happens to a certain extent on certain Amps, that's why at concerts, some players will rather use their own amp rather than borrow an identical one from another player. There is that "slight" difference, but not as much as in the case of steels with possibly different cuts of woods,the torque of the screws etc etc having effect. Bill you hit it on the nail.

Micky Byrne United Kingdom www.mickybyrne.com

Michael Douchette · From: Gallatin, TN (deceased)

This is why, when I find a guitar that sounds good to me, even if it's overpriced, I try to find a way to buy it... because ordering one "just like it for less" just isn't possible...

There's magic in some of them boards, boys...

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Mikey D...

mtulbert · From: Plano, Texas 75023

Just a thought here, but pickups do deteriorate with time.

Suggeston, why not measure the impedance of both of them and see if there is a big difference. That could explain a big tonal difference everything else being identical.

Not to say that two of these should sound identical, but a big difference would indicate a change in electronics.

Mark T.

Jim Phelps · From: Mexico City, Mexico

I remember reading an interview with Ibanez' manager and he said, "we make two identical guitars out of the same log of wood and they sound different".

A few years ago I bought a new Ibanez electric guitar and liked it so well I bought another new one, identical except for the color. I've done my own setup work since 1971 and I set them both up identically. Even if I raised or lowered the strings, pickups or whatever, the white one always sounded brighter and more Strat-like than the sonic blue one, which had a rounder, funkier midrange.

They both sounded like the same TYPE of guitar, but had different timbres, enough difference in sound that anyone could hear it.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 02 December 2006 at 06:47 AM.]

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

There's always slight differences between "identical" wood guitars, since no two pieces of wood are exactly alike. That said, the differences are usually pretty minor, and therefore of little consequence. (I think that's what Kevin was alluding.) The assembly of a steel can also effect the sound, so tightening or loosening of some screws could reduce the differences, or increase them.

James Quackenbush · From: Pomona, New York, USA

I think that all of the above can contribute to the tone differences...Pickups loosing strength, and screw torque, etc...One of the bigger items mentioned was the wood ...Not only if it was cut from the same board, but also how tight or loose the joint's on the cabinet are, but also, were these pedal steels always kept together ?....Maybe the wood on one is drier than the other ??....This play's a significant role when it comes to the tone of an electric 6 string, why not a pedal steel ??.. I think that the fact that a piece of wood is drier, it seem's to be more resonant , and therefore, we all seem to agree how great the older steel's sound .... I could be wrong, but that's my thoughts on the matter ...Jim

Fred Nolen · From: Mohawk, Tennessee, USA

Steel guitars are like people - they ALL have different personalities. They not only sound differently, they feel differently as well. So is the case with my two Rains SD10s, (one 05 and one 06). I have never heard a steel guitar that sounded bad, at least since I bought an electronic tuner. Just my $.02 worth.

Ol' Fred

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

Is one of them black? Black guitars sound better.

Jim Bob Sedgwick · From: Clinton, Missouri USA

You can play faster on a RED one!

Hook Moore · From: South Charleston,West Virginia

Thats why I have one black and one red

Hook

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www.HookMoore.com

Alan Brookes · From: Brummy living in Southern California

No Bobby, they're both varnished wood without stain.

I'm surprised no-one asked about whether the strings were different, which they're not.

I've noticed that the high 3rd string on the E9 neck is not as loud as the others.

James Morehead · From: Prague, Oklahoma, USA - R.I.P.

No two guitars are or can be created equal. They can only be "close". That's the answer to this HUGE equation.

[This message was edited by James Morehead on 03 December 2006 at 11:46 AM.]

LARRY COLE · From: LANCASTER, OHIO, USA

If you think identical sttels sound different, you should compare acoustic guitars.

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Playing For JESUS,LC. WILLIAMS U12,SHO-BUD PRO1,CARVIN TL60,GIBSON LES PAUL CUSTOM,YAMAHA L-10A ACOUSTIC,ROLAND JW-50 KEYBOARD,G&L AND BC RICH BASS'S

Bruce Hamilton · From: Vancouver BC Canada

About four years ago I had 4 D-10 JCHs in my living room and they all had the same pickups.I ran them through the same system with the same cords and not one sounded like any other one.They all sounded good but not the same. Goes to show if you really love the sound of your friends guitar and order one exactly the same you may or may not be disappointed.

Lem Smith · From: Long Beach, MS

What about the carbon fiber MSA's? Do they all sound the same, since they're using carbon fiber and not wood?

John Coffman · From: Wharton,Texas USA

With limited knowledge of the steel and still a beginner but with many years working with woods and metals. It is very easy to understand why 2 steel sound different. This is very basic. No two trees are alike and no two runs of foundry metals as the same. Add the strings from many vendors. Each and every steel is like a snowflake. Frequency and harmonics are varible things. So embrace each steel and enjoy it's unquieness.

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Thomas SD10 3/4,Thomas D10 8/5 and Desert Rose S10 3/4. Beginner Just Steelin on the Brazos river.

Eric West · From: Portland, Oregon, USA, R.I.P.

If you're still with us, the pickups as mentioned, but also the tightness of the screws that hold the necks to the body. I've heard from good sources that too tight will make them sound "dead".

EJL

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

"The instruments are made of wood. Unless both of them are made out of wood from the same board then there is one difference you can look at right there that would cause sonic differences."

This, plus what Eric said about "tightness", and other construction, is the joy of different guitars. they each have theri own tone and own "personality".

It's nothing to worry about -it's just what stringed instruments are all about, and what's been discussed in several other threads - even identical models can have a different inherent tone. And even though modern steels have all started to all sound kind of the same, classic instruments especially are prized by some for their specific tone - then the quest becomes to find the BEST one of a particular model.

It can become a terrible case of GAS. Gear Acquisition Syndrome.

;-)

Lem Smith · From: Long Beach, MS

I'd have to say that Eric W. is spot on about the screws being too tight can make a huge difference. When I first got the Sho~Bud Pro II that I play now, it sounded ok, but didn't really sustain like it should and the overall tone was lacking. So I backed off on some of the screws on the guitar a little, primarily the ones holding the necks and also those on top at the metal piece that goes around the pickup and changer, and the difference was remarkable. Now this guitar has both incredible sounding tone and sustain.

But, I guess as with most things, your mileage may vary.

Lem

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

I've concurrently had lots of pairs of 6-string guitars and a pair of pedal steels that were "identical" models - same construction, wood where applicable, and so on. Never did any of them sound the same on a controlled strum, with identical strings and the same basic setup. Some were similar, and some sounded very different. The steels were S-10 P/Ps and they were pretty similar on the low-end, but quite different on the high-end. Again, I'm talking about a controlleed strum and just listening to it - no spectrum analyzers. The point about how tight screws are and so on may be applicable - the setup issues on a steel are less well-known to me than on a guitar. One was a Bobby Bowman set up, the other was not.

I currently have two "identical" Les Paul Standards - built around the same time - that are night and day apart. One has an extremely clear but warm tone, and the other has a tone more suited to rock and blues - warm but more "jagged" and less clear, for the lack of a better word. These differences are noticable even when played acoustically, and come through clearly when plugged into the same amp/settings.

But if I work with where and how I pick, amp settings, and so on, I doubt most people would be able to tell which was which. I can make either of them sound like whatever "Les Paul Standard" sound one wants to think about. Still, one seems to naturally channel me into playing jazz, the other into rock and blues. Music has these strange conundrums.

Yeah, this is even more noticable on acoustic guitars. Every Martin D-18 or 28 I've ever played had their unique "nominal" tonal signature - just do a simple, controlled strum, and they sound quite different. Different eras of the same instrument can be like very different instruments. Big difference between scalloped-bracing + Adirondack-spruce + Brazilian-rosewood and the later heavy-bracing + Sitka-spruce + Indian-rosewood. But somehow - even with these significant differences - I think a player like Tony Rice or Norman Blake could take any decent example of any version and still sound like "themselves".

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