Emmons LG - RKR issue!

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

As I was playing earlier, I noticed severe instability in the pulls on RKR. It got so bad that I upended the guitar to try and work it out.

The RKR's cross-shaft was angled way to the right! Then I saw that leverage is transferred to the shaft by means of a short rod attached to the base of the KL. A standard 14-hole bell-crank is taking all the strain of pulling five different strings (3 on E9, 2 on C6).

Here's what I took off the guitar. It snapped as I was removing it but it was fatigued.

The other picture shows that lone bell-crank in position. (Sorry if they're inverted - my camera phone always does that on the Forum.)

Where can I get a heavy duty bell-crank to go in that spot? It badly needs something more robust.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
----------------------------------

Boo Bernstein · From: Los Angeles, CA

Roger -

I’ve had that same issue a number of times on RKR on my LeGrande and have replaced that exact 14-hole bellcrank about 4 times. Coincidentally, I had to replace it this week. It was impossible to see the very small crack until I removed it! If you find an easy solution, please let me know. Otherwise, it probably wouldn’t be that difficult for someone to machine one. It wouldn’t need to be 14 hole - just one or two adjustments holes. Maybe Jim Palenscar could make one - I can ask him.

Please let me know what you find. Hope all is well with you!

Boo

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

It's easy to OVER-tighten that screw to hold it on SQUARE Cross-shaft. But basically you only want to two-finger tighten; it does NOT need to be WRENCHED down will all might...ha..it ain't going anywhere on a square shaft; just two finger so it don't slide around; that's all you need. "SET Screws and tightening bolts" have ruined so many parts.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Ricky

Thanks for that tip. I do have a tendency to make sure they're tightly screwed down. As you say, with a square shaft, a firm grip is all that's needed.

I don't know what they used for those 14-hole cranks but it should have been improved upon. I thought I had left all that pot-metal business behind me when I sold my Pro-111.

Boo! Hiya!

Please ask Pali if he has something better. That's way too much load for one ordinary bell-crank to withstand. The guitar is 23 years old in October and it's held that long. The problem is that it's only in the last two years that I've also lowered 10 to an A. I use it a lot, too.

Many years ago, someone replaced the BC on my E to D# lower (LKL) with a much more hefty aftermarket part for just that reason. I broke two BCs on that KL but the new part fixed that for good. It may have been the late Dave Robbins- he worked on my guitar a few times.

That's what I need in this location, too. What a coincidence that it's just happened to you, Boo.

I am down to just one spare BC now. Sad

_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
----------------------------------

Boo Bernstein · From: Los Angeles, CA

Thanks for you input, Ricky. I will absolutely follow that advice. I think this particular bellcrank is subject to more pressure than others. It’s actually being pushed - it’s not pulling fingers directly. In addition to the pushing, it is moving multiple strings on both necks.

John Swain · From: Winchester, Va

This happened on my Legrande 10 yrs ago, I happened to be on a trip from Md to SC so I stopped at Emmons in Burlington. Ron Jr had made some 14 hole solid aluminum bellcranks. I replaced the broken stamp metal and it's been good ever since. Billy Knowles might have one.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Thanks, John. I think that's what Dave Robbins put on my LKL many years ago.

I will check with Billy.
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
----------------------------------

Ricky Davis · From: Bertram, Texas USA

no Prob Roger and Boo.... and yes the more tension there is to pull or push will make the Material more important. I just checked with my Machinist Michael Yahl at his website psgparts.com; he doesn't seem to make this particular puller for Emmons...but if he did; he would Surely make it out of 6061 aluminum; probably like Billy Knowles does...so get one from Billy and you can put 5 pulls on one puller...and yeeeehaaa...it won't move or especially not break down at the screw/bolt tightening threads.
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com

George Webb · From: Mississauga, Ont, CAN

Hi Roger,
My solution to that problem was to install 2 bell cranks side by side on that shaft and tie them together with short screws and nuts. I think they are 2-56 thread. The rod connects to the one on the left as usual and the right one supports it. Hope the picture is clear enough.
It was years ago, but it's still working.
Good luck,
George

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

That's clever, George. With two to take the strain, this is far less of a potential problem.

I do have a spare bell-crank but I still think I'm going to try and source an aluminum one first. I'm always wanting to add pulls here and there. Smile

With only one spare, I have to be frugal.

The odd thing is that, for as often as I've had the steel up on the table to 'fix' something, I had never seen - or, at least, noticed - how that particular KL functioned.

Russ Wever was here in the Summer and he saw that the big nut-and-bolt securing that lever had worked loose allowing some lateral movement; he got it tight again. I would have missed that.

Now, all I can think about is the strain that's going on that lonely little stamp-metal bell-crank every time I use that KL! The trouble is that I've been unable to 'time' the pulls (I lack the knowledge); in a perfect world, my two A strings on C6 would reach A# at the half-way point (when the E9 2nd drops a half-tone) but, if I want that A#, I have to push the KL all the way over lowering 2,9,10 all the way in the process.

If Russ were here, I bet he could fix it! Smile

_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
----------------------------------

Tiny Olson · From: Mohawk River Valley, Upstate NY

I've been through about 3 of those bell-cranks for the RKR on my LeGrande too. Lots of stress on that baby. Thought about the double cranks as well. Like you Roger, I'm down to one spare so keep us posted on your progress in getting a solid aluminum bell-crank.

Fortunately, my main horn is my '69 D-10 Rosewood which I just got back from Tommy Cass. I loved that guitar all along but after getting it back from Tommy,,, WOW..!!! Sounds, plays and fits unbelievably great..!! It now has 8 & 7.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Tiny

I'm glad I started this thread; it seems as though this a common fault and I've just been lucky for twenty years..

Good news about your '69!!! Does Tommy only work on PPs? My LeGrande badly needs going through properly after my tinkering. He's a long way from FL, but it's getting hard finding a tech who's not overwhelmed with work. Maybe Tommy is, too. Smile

_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
----------------------------------

Tiny Olson · From: Mohawk River Valley, Upstate NY

Hey Roger:

Yes, Tommy works on LeGrandes too. In fact, he'll do work on about any brand. He's got a Round-Front, Sho-Bud Pro II at his shop now that he's refurbishing for a customer. Tommy is meticulous and can make parts. I spoke to him about doing some work on my LeGrande when I picked up my old Emmons "Original." In addition, Tommy is an awesome guy and I would highly recommend him. If you look up Buck Reid's post where he is looking for Emmons # 1346-D you can see John Macy's post with a pic of my 1312-D and John's 1316-D side by each at Tommy's shop.

Best of luck and I hope you're well. BTW... have you seen the videos of the UP Big-Boy in action..??

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I saw an early video of the Big Boy: words can't describe it! They must have deep pockets to take such a project on.

I am awaiting my new Williams 12 string D13th. I don't know when it's coming - hopefully before mid Summer. At that point I can let go of the LG111. I will consult Tommy first, of course. He's going to have to straighten out some pulls, at the very least!

I will check out that photo. I do hope Buck finds his dad's guitar!
_________________
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
----------------------------------

Tiny Olson · From: Mohawk River Valley, Upstate NY

Sounds good Roger. Yes, I agree with you... I really hope Buck gets that horn back..!!

Bobby D. Jones · From: West Virginia, USA

Here is my idea, Along the thought of Mr. Webb's.
Just put it together out of parts laying in the shop. I built This lock for the 4-8 lower on my 12U, So I could work on the B6 Side. I had to take it off the guitar and move a knee lever back to the original screw holes.

The guitar has 5/16" square cross rods.
These are GFI Bell Cranks, With 1/4" holes for brass ferules. I made the steel insert for the rod to go through.
The steel insert could be drilled and threaded for a set screw for a neat job.

Ron Pruter · From: Arizona, USA

Roger. There's a machinist named Barry Coker, a forum bro, who writes in the Builder's Corner section. You design it, he'll build it. RP
_________________
Emmons SKH Le Grande, '73 Fender P/J bass, Tick tack bass, Regal high strung, USA Nashville 112.

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: