Leveling the loudness of a steel over it's frequency range

[David Neslony]

Does anyone know how to compress the loudness of the steel throughout it's frequency range?

If any notes stand out on the mix, then the loudness of those notes becomes the new steel level in the mix.

David Neslony

[Dave Grafe]

Unless I misunderstand you all compressors are full-range devices unless the detector signal is filtered, which is not common. A competent mixer will use compression to make the overall signal more and not less audible.

As a hedge against being mishandled in the mix you can put a good compressor after your VP and before effects and amp. This is a popular fix but can also become a crutch preventing us from refining hand and VP technique.

I have the Keely pedal and like it a lot. When I had a rack rig I used AudioArts or dbx studio units. Nowadays it's guitar to VP to amp and make it go, if there's a problem I know what to work on

[Dave Hopping]

What's worked best for me is an old Alesis 3630 compressor-limiter. I tried both the MXR Dyna-Comp and the Keeley Compressor Plus on steel and each distorted, although both do pretty well with six-string.

I've always wondered, though, if a Jangle-Box would do well with steel, but not enough to lay bux down. Anybody know?

[Bob Hoffnar]

Are you talking about mixing recorded pedal steel or playing live through a PA ?

Is the problem with your playing or are you the engineer?

[David Neslony]

Hi Bob Hoffnar,

I'm playing live through a PA, while streaming live online.

The problem is the engineer and it's not me.

Do you have any more ideas?

David Neslony

[Donny Hinson]

Sounds like your engineer is “riding the board volume”, which is a bad habit…unless your dynamics are forcing hm to do that. You’ll have to reach a compromise, if you can. (Which may mean using a compressor along with less volume pedal to keep your sound always as even as possible.)

[Bob Hoffnar]

I sent you a pm.

[Fred Treece]

I would like to see the possible solutions being discussed in private, if they are presentable.

This seems to be a fairly common problem with sound engineers who want complete control over not just the band dynamics, but each individual player’s dynamics. I don’t think compression is the answer for your sound guy’s bone for steel guitar.

I have worked with (and against) sound guys who want me to run my volume pedal into the amp fx loop and then take the direct line out of my amp because it bypasses the volume pedal effect. I don’t have a problem with VP into fx loop, but I do have a problem with someone taking the expressiveness out of my playing.

[Dave Hopping]

I'm reminded of any number of bluegrass bands I've seen using ONE vocal mic and the singers moving around to balance solo and ensemble vocals. And when it was instrumental time, the mandolin, guitar, banjo, dobro, and fiddle players would in turn get their instrument close to the vocal mike when they soloed.

That's what's possible in terms of stage mix management. Ideally,FOH is merely stage mix writ large, but when the bouncer is the (cough, cough) "engineer", trainwrecks abound.

[David Neslony]

Thanks everyone for the comments!

What I'm up against is a very distorted guitar playing arpeggios when he's not playing fills.

Is there an adjustment or an effect that will cut through the distortion guitar?

David Neslony

[David Neslony]

Can anyone suggest a link to an example of a band playing with an ongoing distortion guitar and a pedal steel playing at the same time?

Thanks!

David Neslony

[Fred Treece]

Thanks everyone for the comments!

What I'm up against is a very distorted guitar playing arpeggios when he's not playing fills.

Is there an adjustment or an effect that will cut through the distortion guitar?

David Neslony

Yes. The adjustment is called “ask the guitar player to lose the distortion and play clean rhythm guitar” when you want to play steel fills and solos. A little bit of drive is okay for rhythm guitar. But all that midrange distortion will hog the sonic space
across the whole spectrum.

Here is Poco, playing High Sierra. A very tasteful mix of heavily distorted guitar and clean pedal steel.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ExXg3lBAvH4

[Jim Hollingsworth]

If you choose to use a compressor here are some basic parameters:

Ratio - 2 to 4 db, no higher (it'll sound squashed)

Attack - slow to medium - set it so the note attack isn't completely cut off

Release- quick

Threshold : set it to where the sound is gently compressed & sustains. If it sounds squashed & flat - you went too far

Setting a compressor is best guided y your ears. Use the above guidelines as that - guidelines -but then dial adjust it til the sound is even & sustains.

jim

[Abram Denzlinger]

I think it comes down to the guitar parts your band has written. If multiple guitars are playing low parts at the same time, it’s going to get muddy and the only way to cut through is more volume. Not a good scenario. You can re-EQ your amps but that’ll only get you so far. If you play higher notes/parts while the guitarists are playing low and vice versa, you’ll cut through at the same volume, and your sound guy will be happy. Might not be what you wanted to hear, but that’s my input. Consider playing less, and play on the opposite frequency spectrum from your guitarists.

Here’s a good example of distorted guitar w/steel, and STUD musicians staying out of each other’s way:

https://youtu.be/Lz1WvrABH2Q

[Ian Rae]

The problem as described appears more musical than technical.

[Dave Hopping]

Fred's idea is a good one, if a little optimistic about how armpit guitarists and slider-riding soundmen often behave upon receiving beneficial advice

Another alternative might be to seek out a more steel-friendly gig.