Back line guitar and accessories

Gavin Dunn · Post by **Gavin Dunn** » 8 Jan 2023 11:06 am

Hi all, a friend who works for a back line company is tasked to gear up for pedal steel. They have amps covered, but are in need of a guitar and accessories. Thought I’d get a consensus here on the matter.

So a few questions:
-S10 or SD10
-3x5 or would 3x4 suffice
-Pack a seat necessary/desirable
-Suggested make/model
-Goodrich passive pedal or an active alternative

I’d suggested either a GFI or Mullen as they are a couple of the most ubiquitous current production brands that most would be familiar with. The intent is to have anyone flying in to have everything they need or would expect.

Any thoughts on this or anything I’ve omitted are welcome.
Gavin

Tucker Jackson · Post by **Tucker Jackson** » 8 Jan 2023 9:30 pm

Nothing but personal preferences, but here goes:

An SD-10 over an S-10... because that double-width body would be comfortable to a large set of players used to both D-10 and SD-10's.

Mullen SD-10 comes standard with 5 knees. The GFI equivalent, the Ultra with an add-on 5th knee, is only $70 less. Either is great, but I would prefer the Mullen.

A passive pot pedal would be fine. The pot will eventually get scratchy, but at least it will mostly work as it's slowly failing and the company could fix it before it became unacceptable. A Hilton is more reliable, but get an extra power supply (that's the part that will fail and then the pedal is suddenly unusable) and commit to always sending that spare out on the job along with the pedal!

Probably a Pac-a-seat with a back, since that's what most people are used to. But a heavy-duty adjustable keyboard bench that raised to at least 20" would be far cheaper and anybody could play one back-lined gig with that. https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... tyle-bench
.

Gavin Dunn · Post by **Gavin Dunn** » 8 Jan 2023 10:02 pm

All good points, most of which reaffirm my own.
Good call on the volume pedal, I definitely hadn’t thought of that.
I would assume a back line volume pedal would only ever be used in a pinch, which is exactly why a potentiometer based pedal might be a problem.

Thanks for the feedback!
Gavin

Paul Brainard · Post by **Paul Brainard** » 9 Jan 2023 7:34 pm

Pedal steels are set up so particularly by their owners that I think probably just about all players bring their own, even if that means a lighter/more basic travel instrument. I can count on a couple of fingers the times I have used a strange steel on a fly date - resulting in such hair-raising experiences as jumping on stage with a Day setup (used to Emmons) and no sound check. . at the very least make sure it is an easy one to swap changes around on & get the player's copedent ahead of time - and maybe, their height, how they like their pedals to feel, etc.

The other option (aside from keeping a stable of the things) would be to have a list of players in the area with instruments that they would rent out for a night, so you have some different models & setups to choose from when the situation arises. I have done that myself a number of times.

I think if they are not bringing any accessories anyway then most players would be OK with an adjustable keyboard or drum throne - might actually be preferable, as lots of us customize our pac-seats as well. . .

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 9 Jan 2023 7:55 pm

Since you posted, Some groups would be Fly In's.
What if Steelers luggage gets lost, With their Gig Kit.

Equipment List to play steel guitar.

Steel Guitar
Volume Pedal
Seat
Chromatic Tuner
Tuning Wrench
Hex Wrench to fit split tuning. (If Needed)
Screw Driver to fit Tuners
Guitar Cord 3 Ft.
Guitar Cord 10 Ft.
Amplifier (Already covered)

Gig Kit.
1 Full set of strings
6 single spare 3rd strings
6 single spare 5th strings
1 Steel Guitar Bar 7/8" X 3"
4 metal finger picks
4 Thumb Picks, 1 small, 1 med., 1 large, 1 Extra large.

Bob's Motto: "Be prepared for the worst thing that can happen", If it doesn't Happen. "I Get a Free Ride".

Just 3 or 4 months ago here on the forum, Wanted to Buy Section. A Forum Member, Went on tour to Europe. Packed his guitar legs in his Check Baggage. His bags got lost, He posted to buy a set of legs. A forum member from Holland I think loaned him a set, And bailed him out.

Gavin Dunn · Post by **Gavin Dunn** » 9 Jan 2023 10:59 pm

Lol, it is a nightmare travelling with these things. And the uncertainty of travel is exactly why these guys want to get a kit together. Not ideal getting behind a strange guitar, but you sometimes have to.
Good suggestions on everything.
Thanks

Benjamin Franz · Post by **Benjamin Franz** » 10 Jan 2023 6:43 am

Perhaps a one inch lift kit, if a tall player needs it.

Matthew Walton · Post by **Matthew Walton** » 10 Jan 2023 10:48 am

Maybe I'm missing something... Why not an 8/5 D-10? I know the C6 neck isn't used as much as the E9 these days, but if you're already spending the money on an SD-10, it seems odd to not spend the (comparatively) little bit more to be all the more prepared with a full D-10.

And I agree with the notes about getting a height-adjustable piano bench or drum throne. Unless you're renting this out for the players to take on the road, I don't think the added storage of the pack-a-seat would be particularly helpful.

It might also be good to have an Ernie Ball tone bar on hand just in case they forget theirs. Decently standard size and relatively cheap.

Bill Cunningham · Post by **Bill Cunningham** » 10 Jan 2023 5:39 pm

I see this as a hit or miss proposition due to the variation in setup that a player would be used to. With few exceptions (Jonny Cox being probably the best known one) its hard if not impossible for a player to quickly be proficient on an unfamiliar setup.

I think about a third of the players use Day pedals. Even if a player uses the Emmons pedal setup, then there is the variation of Emmons (left knee E’s) versus ShoBud E’s on the right knee and that’s just the start.

On the other hand, I would guess the instrument would be used a utility player. And likely they would use what seems to have become the most common setup of Emmons pedals and knees.

Go ahead and do it. If someone is willing to pay, one more instrument in the market size pie is a good thing.

May as well get a D-10. 8+8.

Damien Odell · Post by **Damien Odell** » 11 Jan 2023 6:31 pm

To me, it simply is not doable having a pedal steel in a backline situation. Every player uses their own setup and also every guitar feels different. Even if I got to a show and found that a steel was set up the same as mine are, I'd likely have trouble getting used to it on the spot.

Andy Vance · Post by **Andy Vance** » 11 Jan 2023 10:01 pm

I definitely think it is doable for anyone that wants to use a backline instrument or theirs doesn't arrive, or whatever else could happen. As a matter of fact, Mike Bourque talks about being able to play a different setup, different steel, etc, here in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8cpsQNPPM0

starting about 2:15

Andy

James Parsley · Post by **James Parsley** » 14 Jan 2023 5:18 pm

Another consideration should be the finish. A more durable formica covered guitar would be better suited for a rental situation rather than a pretty custom wood stained finish. Accidental bar drops will eventually happen in a backline situation. A simple drop of the tone bar could leave a nasty dent. The more durable formica my safe some headaches in the future.

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 14 Jan 2023 7:50 pm

It is easy to name the items needed to play a Steel Guitar.

The guitar itself is the problem. There is no standard setup for a steel guitar, Like a piano, trumpet, or banjo.

For a start there is Emmons/Nashville setup, Pedals left to right A-B-C, Or Day setup pedals C-B-A. The knee levers can be in different locations. To match with the Emmons or Day pedals. Will the guitar need a C6th neck to play Swing or Jazz. It would be hard to have 1 guitar that would be set up for different players.