E8 knee lever suddenly doesn’t lower

[Mark Bunster]

Hi, relative newbie using a GFI III ultra.
All of a sudden last night the E8 lever does nothing and tuning the hex doesn’t change the pitch at all. I’ve looked through some older posts and haven’t seen this situation exactly; the others were either a new guitar to them, or it would tune but not down to D#. I get E8 fine, the E4 seems to lower ok, and I can raise E8. But pushing the lower lever does nothing anymore.

Thanks for any ideas. I’m not mechanical so it’s probably going to have to go in to be fixed but I thohhht I’d try.

[Bobby D. Jones]

If it just happened all at once. Turn the guitar over and move the lever that has the problem.

Check the plastic Tuning nut first, To see if it is slipping on the rod threads. Follow the linkage to the 8th string changer finger.

Check and make sure the 8th string Changer finger is returning and lines up with other changer fingers.

Check the little Brass Feral that attaches the Bell Crank to the pull rod. Check the set screw in the brass feral. The rod may be slipping in the Feral.

Make sure the Bell Crank is firmly attached to the Cross Rod.

Check the lower return spring also.

Good Luck in finding the problem.

[Mark Bunster]

If it just happened all at once. Turn the guitar over and move the lever that has the problem.

Check the plastic Tuning nut first, To see if it is slipping on the rod threads. Follow the linkage to the 8th string changer finger.

Check and make sure the 8th string Changer finger is returning and lines up with other changer fingers.

Check the little Brass Feral that attaches the Bell Crank to the pull rod. Check the set screw in the brass feral. The rod may be slipping in the Feral.

Make sure the Bell Crank is firmly attached to the Cross Rod.

Check the lower return spring also.

Good Luck in finding the problem.

Thanks for this! I understand virtually none of the terms or what the pieces might look like; I’ll try to google some kind of part diagram.

[Roger Rettig]

Bobby knows what he's talking about.

Turn the guitar over and watch what happens when you push a lever that IS working. See how it moves the bell-crank (mounted on the cross-shaft); it's possible that whatever type of retaining clip GFI uses has come unattached. If it happened suddenly, that's what I'd look for.

[Larry Dering]

Mechanical or not just look at what it does with E4 and you will understand how it moves E8. Same function. Following Bobby and Rogers advice. Most likely something has come loose. I own a GFI Ultra and the undercarriage is pretty clean and logical lay out. You need to learn a bit on names of components and understand how they work to keep your steel operating. Look, learn and ask for help as needed.

[Roger Rettig]

Mark:

A quick PS...

Rather than Google, try the search function right here on the Steel Forum. Maintenance problems have cropped up countless times and people on here have responded with informed solutions.

I should know: I've reached out many times and am grateful for everyone's help.

The point is, all these arcane terms you've yet to learn will become familiar. Do a 'search' for 'GFI knee-levers' or something similar. 90% of the steels out there work on the same basic principles and you'll find photos, too.

[Bobby D. Jones]

I Will try to make this short and to the point.

Lets get on the same page.
This is a picture of a GFI Ultra S12 Changer.

First check the Plastic/Nylon Nut, To make sure it has not stripped the threads in the nut. And moves up and down the rod as it is turned to adjust the Pull. Then

A. Is the 8th string Changer Finger, Make sure that the finger is coming back and lining up with all the other fingers under the end of the Return Springs,

B. Is what GFI calls a Brass Farrel, This is what connects the Bell Crank to the Pull Rod.

C. Is a Brass Farrel, Set Screw and wrench for attaching the Rod to the Bell Crank. This is used to set Pull Rod Length.

D. Is a GFI Bell Crank, Looking at it from the side to better understand its use. Check the screw in the Bell Crank. It is what locks the Bell Crank to the Cross Rod.

I hope this will help you understand my previous post. And will help you find the problem.
Good Luck in this project, Happy Steelin.

[Mark Bunster]

I Will try to make this short and to the point.

Lets get on the same page.
This is a picture of a GFI Ultra S12 Changer.

First check the Plastic/Nylon Nut, To make sure it has not stripped the threads in the nut. And moves up and down the rod as it is turned to adjust the Pull. Then

A. Is the 8th string Changer Finger, Make sure that the finger is coming back and lining up with all the other fingers under the end of the Return Springs,

B. Is what GFI calls a Brass Farrel, This is what connects the Bell Crank to the Pull Rod.

C. Is a Brass Farrel, Set Screw and wrench for attaching the Rod to the Bell Crank. This is used to set Pull Rod Length.

D. Is a GFI Bell Crank, Looking at it from the side to better understand its use. Check the screw in the Bell Crank. It is what locks the Bell Crank to the Cross Rod.

I hope this will help you understand my previous post. And will help you find the problem.
Good Luck in this project, Happy Steelin.

Man, you’re trying so hard. And I’m trying to follow you but I’m still not sure of a lot of things:

*Is the plastic/nylon nut the thing I turn with the hex to change tuning? If so, where are the threads? It’s just a smooth plastic white piece. I don’t know what “moves up and down the rod” means, I don’t see a rod, only the plastic end that moves back and forth when you activate the lever.

*Finger seems to move like the others, if we’re talking about the slim metal piece that pops out when you move the lever

*Is the farrel in B the same as in C, or a different one? Because C and D look detached from the guitar, and the farrel and crank don’t look attached to each other either.

*The crank looks like a plate with holes, I don’t see any screws, and I don’t see it connected to anything and don’t know what a cross rod is.

[Mark Bunster]

Mark:

A quick PS...

Rather than Google, try the search function right here on the Steel Forum. Maintenance problems have cropped up countless times and people on here have responded with informed solutions.

I should know: I've reached out many times and am grateful for everyone's help.

The point is, all these arcane terms you've yet to learn will become familiar. Do a 'search' for 'GFI knee-levers' or something similar. 90% of the steels out there work on the same basic principles and you'll find photos, too.

Thanks—did a search before asking, didn’t find anything relevant.

[Bobby D. Jones]

You only see the hex end of the pull train when you are putting the Tuning Wrench on.



Inside the Tuning Nut is threads that mates with the threads on the rod, This allows adjusting the pull on the Changer Finger. The sleeve is to keep the threads on the rod from contacting Changer Finger.

Get a good light under the guitar, Put the tuning wrench on the 8th string Lower Tuning Nut. Look under the guitar, Find the Pull Rod that goes to the 8th string lower.

Hold the rod lightly in one hand and turn the tuning wrench with the other, If the Pull Rod turns, The set screw in the Brass Ferule is loose or missing. The Set Screw may have not been properly tightened and it has cut a Grove in the Pull Rod.

If the Pull Rod does not turn, Check the Tuning Nut, The threads may have stripped in the Tuning Nut.

Edited: Just to remove a word out of contex.

[Brint Hannay]

Trying to keep the language as everyday as possible:

The nylon thing you tune at the changer end (using a hex socket wrench) to adjust the pedal or lever is a nut and is threaded onto the metal rod that runs under the guitar. It sounds to me as though the simplest and most likely explanation for your problem is that the threads inside the nylon nut have stripped. It happens. This would call for obtaining a replacement nylon nut, prob. from GFI.

The next likely problem is that, in the little brass barrel-shaped thing at the other end of the rod, under the guitar, the set screw on the barrel has come loose, and would probably just need to be tightened with a small hex Allen wrench.

[Mark Bunster]

Thanks to the folks who explained it like I’m five, seriously. I’m not at home right now but I feel a lot more confident about troubleshooting, and also glad I’m a little less ignorant about my instrument. I’ll let y’all know how it goes.

In steel,
MB

[Mark Bunster]

Long awaited (lol) update!
Feeling like I had to troubleshoot before I could play, plus the winter months and my heat pump for the attic studio not really functioning well, plus some home issues, delayed me even trying to use your generous advice.

Until today. Beautiful 65 degrees and things are relatively good.
It took all of about 5 minutes. At first I thought the pulls were getting the little blade to move forward on the low E, but it wasn’t. Apparently during the last time I was playing and the temp was playing tuning tricks on me, I must have downtuned the peg so much that it simply stopped responding.

Moreover, when I cranked it a bunch of times to get it to work again, then flipped it over and plugged it in, it was within a hair’s breath of d# already. !!

Thanks again everyone, back up and running just in time to debut some psg on a recording my son is releasing of his material! Proud on a couple levels.

[Bobby D. Jones]

Great to hear you found the problem, And able to cure the problem quickly. Good Luck and Happy Steelin.bj