How does a "sitar" bar work ?

John Lockney · Post by **John Lockney** » 3 Jun 2006 4:12 pm

I only found a few mentions of sitar bars in a Forum search. I was wondering how it works and found a picture of one here: http://www.steelguitar.net/bars.html

I was expecting a series of "rollers" that would rattle as you held the bar just barely touching the strings...

All that sound comes from just a flat edge ? Does it require an incredible amount of skill and practice to hold the bar just exactly perfect to get that sound, or is it relatively easy ?

Cliff Kane · Post by **Cliff Kane** » 3 Jun 2006 4:32 pm

The strings buzz against the flat part of the bar.....buzzzooooiiiiinggg........kind of suggesting the buzzy sond of drone strings. I think there's a John Prine song ("Sam Stone"?) with sitar bar steel guitar.

John Lockney · Post by **John Lockney** » 3 Jun 2006 5:34 pm

Stephen Leblanc posted a while ago that his dad, Leo Leblanc, used a 1/2" square bar on "Sam Stone".
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/002351.html

I guess I was wondering if you have to hold the bar VERY lightly above the strings to get it to buzz, if you turn it to use just one knife-edge of the flat surface, or if you let the full flat edge set on the strings with normal pressure.

I don’t understand why a flat surface would make a sitar-like noise. It seems like the front-edge of the flat surface would “fret” the string.

Mike Perlowin · Post by **Mike Perlowin** » 3 Jun 2006 5:40 pm

I can't tell you how or why it works, only that it does. And you don't have to hold the bar above the strings. Just apply the same pressure you normally do.

I have a Dunlop sitar bar, and I'm very happy with it.

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My web site

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 3 Jun 2006 6:07 pm

Here's 3 pics of my Dunlop sitar bar. Any bar with a flat edge machined into it should work fine. Diameter is 1.0" and length is 3.75". It's pretty heavy so maybe that helps keep it flat against the strings.

Greg

<a target="_blank" href="http://www.gregcutshaw.com"><img align="left" src="http://www.gregcutshaw.com/Greg%20Band2.jpg" width="80" height="80" ></a>
Greg's Web Page
MSA/Steel King Sounds

Greg Cutshaw · Post by **Greg Cutshaw** » 3 Jun 2006 6:55 pm

Update: Click on MSA/Steel King sounds above at my web site and on that page click on "Sitar". Sitar is a one minute clip of some sitar sounds I just recorded which should give you an idea of what the sitar bar sounds like.

Greg

John Lockney · Post by **John Lockney** » 3 Jun 2006 7:18 pm

It makes a sound like the Beatles ? Thanks for the recording and the pictures, Greg!

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Edited to move my inquiry about finding a used one over to WTB.
[This message was edited by John Lockney on 04 June 2006 at 08:39 AM.]

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 3 Jun 2006 7:25 pm

not knocking your playing but... i could only make it thru about 1/2 of if before i had to click off it.. that thing sounds awful..think i will stick with my trusty Dunlop

calvin

Steve English · Post by **Steve English** » 3 Jun 2006 8:16 pm

Great pictures, playing, and tone!

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 4 Jun 2006 12:53 am

You can get the same sound with a much greater degree of control and shading by playing out of an extreme forward-slant position. The sitar bars apply the same amount of flat edge to every note no matter where it is on the neck, but by slanting the bar yourself you can control the tone. Start by holding the bar completely parallel to a string, and work backwards.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 4 Jun 2006 7:30 am

Made my own bar once when I was workin' in a machine shop. Put a flat on it. Works great if you can stand the sound! There's another type that is a flat bar. like some of the old Oahu-style bars. The playing edge has two surfaces that are machined diagonally from front, high-string, corner to the back, low-string corner. It also works well. Don't remember who makes it.[This message was edited by John Billings on 04 June 2006 at 08:33 AM.]

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 4 Jun 2006 7:36 am

I really like the sound of the sitar bars - when I had my Fender student model years ago (A Shobud Maverick covered in black tolex) I hated the guitar so much that I sold the whole mess, including the bar...not realizing until years later what that weird flat spot was for. I thought it was a finger rest. One of these days I'll have to get one.

Duh.

John Lockney · Post by **John Lockney** » 4 Jun 2006 7:47 am

Thanks for the info. I will probably spend 99% of my time trying to NOT make that sound but, I'd like to find a used one and give it a try.

I have a related post over in WTB:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum1/HTML/003536.html

Brett Day · Post by **Brett Day** » 4 Jun 2006 8:29 am

Paul Franklin uses a sitar bar on Lee Ann Womack's song "Why They Call It Fallin'". Brett, Emmons S-10, Morrell lapsteel, GFI Ultra D-10

Tony Dingus · Post by **Tony Dingus** » 5 Jun 2006 5:02 pm

I use a 3/8" thick piece of aluminum for a sitar bar. I found out that's what PF uses, (maybe not the same thickness)and works great for me.

Tony

ebb · Post by **ebb** » 5 Jun 2006 5:30 pm

mooney used this effect also. all my bars are of this type as i find the flat surface on top for regular playing helps my control. also you can lay it flat down side on your guitar without worrying about it rolling onto the floor

Chick Donner · Post by **Chick Donner** » 5 Jun 2006 6:58 pm

Duane Marrs made mine for me upstairs at the old ShoBud store shop; it's as fl;at bar with .0008 or so milled off about a 1/8 section of the flat side. The strings "buzz" where the metal is milled out.

I still use mine, usually to emulate steel drum on that Kenny Chesney song.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 6 Jun 2006 1:29 am

I like using a ping-pong ball for steel drum sounds - lock up the cat though, it'll drive him nuts. HA HA! Hook up an envelope follower, drive yourself nuts.

Adrienne Clasky · Post by **Adrienne Clasky** » 6 Jun 2006 1:17 pm

David, do you hold the pingpong ball on the strings or bounce it?

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 6 Jun 2006 1:23 pm

Hold the ball on the strings just like a bar and pick with your right hand. It's like the broomstick or PVC pipe trick, only even more so.

Gabriel Stutz · Post by **Gabriel Stutz** » 6 Jun 2006 1:37 pm

I'm a fan of mallets on the strings. It creates a really nice ambient chordal sound when you do a roll.

Russ Wever · Post by **Russ Wever** » 19 Jun 2006 2:13 am

. . . how 'bout it, John?

[This message was edited by Russ Wever on 19 June 2006 at 03:18 AM.]

Kenny Davis · Post by **Kenny Davis** » 19 Jun 2006 6:12 pm

I've got one, Russ...I think Jim Johnson (Conway's pilot in the '70's)was responsible for the Hughey sitar bar. If I remember correctly, the late Doug Campbell might have worked with Jim on the design or manufacture. With Conway living in Oklahoma back then, I know Jim was here quite a lot, and Doug was involved with making a steel guitar for a short time. I met Jim through Doug and bought the bar from them.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 21 Jun 2006 10:54 am

Brett,
Paul also used the Franklin Sitar Bar on "I Hope You Dance" and "Remember Me" by Tim & Faith.

I can't answer how it works, but it has a great sound.

James Cann · Post by **James Cann** » 21 Jun 2006 3:24 pm

. . . how 'bout it, John?

How about it, indeed, and only $14.95! Better get two![This message was edited by James Cann on 21 June 2006 at 04:27 PM.]