Question about LKV and RKR copedents on GFI E9 neck

Jeffrey Beers · Post by **Jeffrey Beers** » 12 Dec 2022 11:57 am

Hi. I am a beginner pedal steel player. I’m just getting to the point where I’m ready to start adding the knees to my changes.

I bought my GFI ULTRA used and hadn’t really noticed anything unusual until I started delving into the use of pedals beyond raising and lowering the E strings.

What I have discovered is that the LKV has been changed so it only lowers the ten string. And, the RKR only lowers the 2 string from D# down to D and does not lower the 9:string at all.. Other than that, everything is the GFI. E9 copedent.

Does anyone have an idea as to what the previous owner might have been trying to accomplish with those changes? Is it some ‘minimalist’ thing or was he trying to allow cool chords or something? (He passed away or I would just ask him).

I don’t have the experience to know what to think. Although, mechanically, I think could handle making the changes.

Any ideas?

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 12 Dec 2022 1:10 pm

I could maybe see not dropping 10 to Bb on LKV, but lowering the 5th is the whole purpose of that change (it's a very versatile pull, too).

Not lowering the 9th means a whole lot of stuff is missing. You can certainly play without it but, eventually, I'm sure you'll come to appreciate it's value.

I'm mystified by his decision to remove them, if that's what happened.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 12 Dec 2022 3:02 pm

Are the rods still in place for both of those absent changes (with just the nylon tuners backed off)?

I recently added the 9th string lower to a guy's steel that lacked it. It's too useful a change to not have, especially with that lever just sitting there going to waste (aside from the essential 2nd string lower).

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 12 Dec 2022 4:02 pm

I could be wrong but I don’t think it’s all that uncommon to not have the D>C# change on 9, and only the D#>D change on 2. That’s how the Stage One is set up.

Regarding string 10, is it a half step drop or a whole step? If it’s a half step, then I agree with Roger, that’s a weird one.

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 12 Dec 2022 4:57 pm

Turn the guitar over and move the Knee Levers that is the problem. Move a Knee Lever, And follow pull to Cross Rod, To Bell Cranks, And then each Pull Rod to the Changer Fingers. for some reason the nylon tuning nuts may be backed off. Carefully check where the Pull Rod is attached to the Bell Crank, Someone may not tightened the set screw in the Brass Ferrule and the rod is sliding through the Brass Ferrule, Instead of properly pulling the Pull Rod, And activating the Changer Fingers.

Good Luck finding the problem and correcting.

Jeffrey Beers · Post by **Jeffrey Beers** » 13 Dec 2022 4:25 am

Thanks for the replies, folks. I’m going to flip her over and see if everything is functioning,

Then, if everything is in place to do so. I’m going to consider putting it back to the original copedents.

Man, I appreciate you guys taking the time to chime in.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 13 Dec 2022 6:15 am

Here is the GFI E9th chart from their website:

And rodding chart:

Jeffrey Beers · Post by **Jeffrey Beers** » 13 Dec 2022 7:50 am

You gentlemen ready to have an “at least I ain’t that guy” moment?

Well, on the RKR, it turns out that MR MUSIC wasn’t pressing the lever hard enough to take whole bite. (It does seems harder to press past the détente than I would maybe expect. Should I loosen the spring or springs?)

But wait, it gets better: The reason why the LKV would lower the 10 string but not the five is because THE GREAT MECHANICAL GENIUS installed the string stuck between the roller and the frame instead of in the string groove made just for that purpose. So, the string tuned up and stayed in tune but wouldn’t move. Fixed that, but expecting a ping and a string.

So, we’re back in business. The good news is that I was forced to look closely at and understand the instrument a little better.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 13 Dec 2022 8:34 am

GFI Tightens the spring so there is a definite feel stop for the 2nd string half tone lower. I have mine loosened some and I still have somewhat of a feel stop.

Jeffrey Beers · Post by **Jeffrey Beers** » 13 Dec 2022 9:15 am

Thanks Jack. I’ll play with it the way it is for a while and see if I get used to it.

I’m just getting into some of the levers so I don’t have any muscle memory or know much about them, yet.

What I do know is that the guy who had the instrument before me bought it new in 2004 and played it a little bit almost every day until he died at the age of 85 last summer. He was apparently able to push that lever. I’m thinking the weak spot at this time might be me.

Thanks for the reply.

Jon Light · Post by **Jon Light** » 13 Dec 2022 10:00 am

I've messed with the feel of that feeler stop for clients. Some who hated the extra tension and some who begged for more positive feel. It is a delicate balance and it is a compromise.
It takes only a little spring pressure to feel great with your hand when the guitar is flipped over on the bench. But then you turn it over and you can hardly feel the notch with your leg.

As you have already said, you need to educate your muscles. Then, when you and they know what's what, you can see if fine-tuning is warranted. Some steels also use a whole separate bit of hardware involving an extra bellcrank, rod and spring. You can achieve much more positive half stops. But it sure can load down the lever with lots of extra pounds of required pressure.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 13 Dec 2022 2:29 pm

Jeffrey Beers wrote:Thanks Jack. I’ll play with it the way it is for a while and see if I get used to it.

I’m just getting into some of the levers so I don’t have any muscle memory or know much about them, yet.

What I do know is that the guy who had the instrument before me bought it new in 2004 and played it a little bit almost every day until he died at the age of 85 last summer. He was apparently able to push that lever. I’m thinking the weak spot at this time might be me.

Thanks for the reply.

I'll be 85 the 18th of this month (Sunday). Still able to work the pedals and knee levers.

Jeffrey Beers · Post by **Jeffrey Beers** » 13 Dec 2022 3:42 pm

I’m just a kid. I’ll be 66 on Thursday.

Happy Birthday and here’s wishing you continued good health

Jeffrey Beers · Post by **Jeffrey Beers** » 13 Dec 2022 3:43 pm

I’m just a kid. I’ll be 66 on Thursday.

Happy Birthday and here’s wishing you continued good health

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 14 Dec 2022 2:54 am

Happy Birthday, too.

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 15 Dec 2022 4:37 pm

Happy Birthday Jeffrey.

One of the great things about a GFI is the knee Levers. With the knee levers not being attached direct to the Cross Rod. They use a regular Bell Crank to transfer Pull from the knee Lever to the Cross Rod. This allows short KL movement with higher KL pressure to engage, Or longer KL movement with less KL pressure to engage. The setup is the players choice.

If the KL Bell Crank hole is moved, The Stop Screw on the KL will need adjusted for the change too.

Good Luck in getting your guitar set up. Happy Steelin.

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Question about LKV and RKR copedents on GFI E9 neck

Question about LKV and RKR copedents on GFI E9 neck

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