Changer finger out of place after string change on PP

Chuck Hamilton · Post by **Chuck Hamilton** » 12 Dec 2022 10:47 am

After changing string number one on the E9 neck of my 1981 Emmons push pull the changer finger is out of place and I can’t seem to get it back where it is supposed to be. I only have one change on that string, which is to raise a whole step with the right knee lever left Any suggestions? See the pictures.Picture file

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Norman Evans · Post by **Norman Evans** » 12 Dec 2022 10:59 am

It looks like the hook on the pull rod has come out of the hole on the finger.

Jason Putnam · Post by **Jason Putnam** » 12 Dec 2022 11:25 am

That hook should be in one of those holes. One of the push pull experts may know which one. If not just try each one until you get the right one that takes it to pitch.

Bruce Zumsteg · Post by **Bruce Zumsteg** » 12 Dec 2022 12:07 pm

It has purposely been set up that way in order to speed up the pull on the long throw required for the F# to G# change.

Jason Putnam · Post by **Jason Putnam** » 12 Dec 2022 12:31 pm

And there you have it. Advice from someone who definitely knows what they are talking about. Cool!

Mike Vallandigham · Post by **Mike Vallandigham** » 12 Dec 2022 1:00 pm

That's how you set up that pull on a PP.

You never noticed it before?

Lynn Stafford · Post by **Lynn Stafford** » 12 Dec 2022 3:49 pm

Bruce Zumsteg wrote:It has purposely been set up that way in order to speed up the pull on the long throw required for the F# to G# change.

What Bruce said exactly! I think I worked on that guitar. Is the serial number 2225 D? If so, it's from the mid 70s with a lacquer cabinet. I sold it to Tyler George and he sold it to Keith Bolog. Perhaps you bought it from Keith?

Chuck Hamilton · Post by **Chuck Hamilton** » 12 Dec 2022 4:03 pm

Yes Lynn, that's the one! I love it but don't know how to fix this problem. Now when I raise that lever, the pitch of the string goes up 3 half steps instead of 2. How do I get that finger back where it belongs?

Ian Worley · Post by **Ian Worley** » 12 Dec 2022 5:20 pm

engage the lever firmly and tune the G# raise at the keyhead, then release the lever and tune the open F# with the lowering screw on the upper row. This setup is a work around, tuning it is slightly counter-intuitive

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 12 Dec 2022 5:33 pm

If you haven't changed anything underneath just be sure you are using the same gauge string you took off. Just a thought.

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 12 Dec 2022 11:47 pm

Ian Worley wrote:engage the lever firmly and tune the G# raise at the keyhead, then release the lever and tune the open F# with the lowering screw on the upper row. This setup is a work around, tuning it is slightly counter-intuitive

Yes, exactly

Jim Palenscar · Post by **Jim Palenscar** » 13 Dec 2022 8:07 am

I don't see the adjusting screw here and I generally use one to lock the raise scissor against the hook. While I'm not sure this applies, a common malady with these guys is the 50 year old raise scissor wears where the axle slips thru it allowing it to slip to the side of the adjusting screw. It's pretty common and, short of replacing all the scissors/fingers, there is a bit of a fix that should help. The 6-40 adjusting screws have flat ends at the end of the threads and tend to grab the finger in question and pull it to the side and if the hole that the axle goes thru has worn, the finger can slip right on by the screw as seen in your picture. Unfortunately no amount of side pressure seems to be able to solve the issue (I've tried adding shims to the changer but have yet to have it solve the problem and still have a functioning changer). I've also rebuilt these guys by using a new changer axle- had to go metric having it center ground as it was the closest thing to the original axle- and reaming out the fingers and changer pillow blocks. Short of that I have been successful by rounding the ends of the adjusting screws and using a drill through the hole in the endplate where the screws go put a dimple in the changer finger involved where it meets the adjusting screw and allowing the newly rounded screw and the dimple to marry. Now when you turn the adjusting screw it will not pull the finger to the side and all is again well.

Chuck Hamilton · Post by **Chuck Hamilton** » 14 Dec 2022 8:46 am

Wow Jim, thanks for that thorough explanation, some of which is well over my pay grade. I checked and there are actually no adjustment screws for that particular string so I’m in the process of trying to get some and see if that will help. I’d like to take it to Henry Matthews but that’s a 3 Hour drive away, I may see if I can find somebody in the DFW area. If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know.

Jason Putnam · Post by **Jason Putnam** » 14 Dec 2022 9:34 am

I looked at my changer on my push pull which also has the whole tone raise on the first string and mine is not misaligned that way. So I think there is definitely an issue.

Ian Worley · Post by **Ian Worley** » 14 Dec 2022 3:15 pm

Based on what the OP stated I don't see an issue other than tuning. From what I can see in the pics, the finger is not misaligned in any way, the string tension is simply pulling it all the way back from the "normal" position (as expected) because the open tuning screw and lower return spring have been removed (intentionally). For this setup, that is normal. It's just a workaround to get more leverage for a shorter pull on that string. It's not the only way to set up a whole tone raise on string 1, but it's not uncommon. Maybe y'all are seeing something specific in the pic that I'm not. If so, do tell.

John Palumbo · Post by **John Palumbo** » 14 Dec 2022 3:35 pm

I've been following this post and in agreement with Ian

Abe Levy · Post by **Abe Levy** » 14 Dec 2022 4:21 pm

Looks like it’s supposed to to me.

Dean Smith · Post by **Dean Smith** » 15 Dec 2022 7:36 am

Good luck with this, Chuck. However, you might reach out to Steve Lamb in Ft. Worth as he might be of assistance. Also, Shane Frame up in McKinney might be able to help but I am not sure if he works on push/pulls or not.

Dave Meis · Post by **Dave Meis** » 15 Dec 2022 8:17 am

I think you would have to have a lowering screw to tune the F#.