9th string raise returns sharp

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

I'm in the process of changing to a completely different copedent on my GFI Ultra and have run into an initial problem I can't figure out.

In this setup, the A pedal raises the 4th and 9th strings from F# to G#. I set up the 4th string travel and feel first, then got the 9th string set so it started and ended at the same time, and hit the G# perfectly without any affect on the 4th string. The travel was fine, the feel was good as well.

But the 9th string (only) returns sharp by about 25 cents every time. Retune at the tuning key, and it pulls flat...reset the pull at the changer, and it returns sharp again.

No amount of wiggling the pedal, rod, changer or anything else gets it back to G# other than the tuning key, so it's not a spring (or string) tension issue. It's not hanging on anything either.

I've loosened the changer nuts on both strings, re-set the 4th from scratch, re-set the 9th - no change. Tried different bellcrank and changer holes - no change.

I've got two more pedals and 4 knees left to set, so maybe it's good this is happening on the first one so I can find out what the issue is. I have absolutely no idea, and I'm several hours into trying to "debug" this first pedal.

Any suggestions? There's no one close by to take it to, so need to find out how to solve this myself.

Dean Parks · From: Sherman Oaks, California, USA

Jim-

If you turn the nylon, does the open string change pitch? If so, you need more "freeplay" in the setup.

-dean-

Colby Tipton · From: Crosby, Texas, USA

What Dean said. Loosen the nylon tuner a pretty good bit, then open tune, then tune the pull. Its worth a try, it works for me everytime. This happens to me when strings start getting old and I keep tunning at it. When I change strings I loosen up all of my pulls first.

Colby

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

The 4th has play - if I loosen the 9th to increase free play, though, the pull won't hit the note. When it DOES hit the note - it comes back sharp.

Jerry Roller · From: Van Buren, Arkansas USA

Jim, the roller nut is not free or the lower return spring is too tight would be my guess.
Jerry

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Jim, it sounds like you may need to allow more rotation in the cross shaft. Not sure about your GFI, but there should be an adjustable stop for this, close to where the pedal rod hooks onto the crank on the cross shaft.
Pulling that F# up to G# is a rather long pull, and the pedal stop is probably adjusted for a shorter pull. Just back off the screw a little bit.

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

Also, there may be another stop for the other direction (release) of pedal rotation. You you back that one off too.

richard burton · From: Britain

Jim,
Try operating the ninth by hand, without any rods attached.
If it still returns sharp (unlikely) then it is probably the roller nut.
To prove that, after raising the string, press the lowering segment, release, and see if the string is in tune.
I suspect that insufficient lever travel is the cause of the problem.

[This message was edited by richard burton on 18 November 2006 at 09:53 AM.]

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

Well, weirdly, when I took the rod out and put it back in one of the holes I used last night, just sort of blindly repeating the same operation, it started working. I have no idea why, as I didn't adjust anything - just moved the rod to a different puller hole and set the tunung, exactly the same as last night, using the same holes. I just hope it dosn't turn out to be some kind of intermittent problem.

Anyway, it's working without anything suggested being done - so thanks for trying guys - I really appreciate the help...but I have no idea what made it work!

PS - Doug, last night Paul Redmond mentioned somthing about pedal stops, and I told him I didn't think it even had them - there was nothing in the documentation that came with the guitar and I didn't see anything. But I was used to looking at my Fenders, with a pedal stop at the pedal...or the newer type with nothing at all. This morning I noticed 3 small studs with nuts on them that *must* be intended as pedal stops - but for some reason they are all set all the way out so they stop nothing.

I don't know if those should be set or not - it worked fine mechanically in E9 without them doing anything, so I'm not even sure why they are there at all. Especially since the changer is what stops the travel - why would you have two parts that do the same thing? It sort of makes sense on the old Fenders because of the specific way the stop works (to set pedal height and reduce slop) but these work completely the opposite way - just something to kill the travel. ??

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 18 November 2006 at 10:16 AM.]

Earnest Bovine · From: Los Angeles CA USA

A Fender with cables will probably operate OK without a stop on the pedals. But a pedal stop could help prevent breaking the cables etc.

Jim Sliff · From: Lawndale California, USA

It might, but I haven't had any problem with cables coming apart except on knee levers..which have stops! But those are made from hardware-store parts and a little jury rigged, so I'm not surprised with the way it was done ( as suggested by someone) that I've had one joint pop twice. The next time it goes I have a better attachment method worked out, so I'll change it completely next time it breaks.

But the stock fender pedal cables have never come apart on either guitar - the old 1000 or newer 400.

richard burton · From: Britain

Some steels rely on the changer fingers stopping at the body, and have no pedal stops.
I always find this gives a mushy feel, and have put stops on my ZB and Denley, it makes everything far more positive.

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