The guitar tone by itself

[Brett Lanier]

Another tonal illusion that sometimes plagues steel players is pumping the lows because it feels good on stage.

Every once in a while while practicing at home, I like to dump the bass to zero on my amp. It's amazing how much better you can get your guitar to sound across all the frequencies by playing around with a very unflattering tone. The same can be said for turning off all your effects. I never play dry on gigs, but practicing sometimes without reverb will force your hands to bring out more airiness, or somethin'.

I caught Russ Pahl's solo set a couple weeks ago at Ameicanafest, and it was amazing how bright his steel was. It didn't sound too bright, because he was controlling it all with his technique. But every once in a while a little extra high end would jump out. It could have easily been way too much if he wasn't in control.

Just to touch on the original topic... Yeah, when I started playing a push pull I noticed immediately how that extra midrange made the steel a lot more present in a bands' mix. Even more so once I got the old Marlen.

[Tony Prior]

Years back I used to hang with a good Bass playing friend who was always touring with whoever- USA and Europe.

It goes without saying he was pretty darn good but he had a special ear for what instruments sound like or what they SHOULD sound like.

We would go to the music stores and he would pick up a Bass or two, never plug them in , just play them UNPLUGGED, listening to the natural tone and sustain, especially under the 5th fret. He would say to me this ones got it, this one doesn't. Pete's reference Bass was I believe a mid 60's Jazz Bass, and that thing sang all by itself !

Not all instruments exhibit natural sustain and tone, even two of the same - side by side. I recall being in Bobbee Seymores store one time looking at a P Pull- he laughed and said. don't buy that one, its dead !

I don't think brand or "BADGE" matters , tone and sustain are a result of all the parts. Sometimes an instrument just screams with natural tone/sustain and others do not. Finding the one that screams at you may take a lifetime ! Its not that other instruments don't sound good, they certainly do, but they don't sound over the top great and exhibit a special something that we detect right out of the gate.

So - we keep on searching !

I've had a few different Sho Bud Pro III's , (two hole pullers) but only one had the magic . But I regress, I sold it !

I believe my Legrande II sounds pretty darn good, but I do miss the P Pull as it had a bit of something different which maybe I was the only one who knew it, but I heard it ! My Teles are the ones that speak to me and they each passed the unplugged thing. The ones that didn't speak to me are now long gone and are probably speaking to someone else ! LOL ! I guess thats just the way it works.

[Jason Putnam]

I have owned 4 steels in my life and still have two of them. I started on a stage one, bought a 74 Sho-Bud pro 1, then a Mullen G2, and lastly, a 67 bolt on. The ShoBud is my second favorite and the push pull is the one. When I set down behind it there is just something different about the tone and feel of it. It makes me want to play. I was just never happy with the others. They were newer and prettier but just didn’t have the mojo.

[Bill Terry]

I guess I'll wade in; I've owned ShoBuds, Carters, BMIs, LeGrandes, and P/Ps.. and the P/P is the one that makes me want to play, especially the '67 and '66 bolt-ons that I own now. Everybody gets a different vibe I think, but I believe it was Herb Steiner who said in one of these threads (I'll try to paraphrase, more or less) "Besides having a good tone, P/P guitars provide a tactile feedback to the player that not many other guitars can provide, and that's a large part of their popularity." Maybe Herb will see this thread and correct/comment as necessary but that's EXACTLY what I like about mine. The sound and 'feel' when I sit down just makes me happy. Of course, I have owned some P/Ps that were better than others, and while the bolt-ons are working great for me, I had a '72 Rosewood cuttail fatback that was really magic. Should have kept it. My point is all the P/Ps I've owned had the basic P/P vibe that appeals to me, some just had 'more of it'.

I think Tony's point about his bass player friend being able to 'spot' good basses is spot on. I've owned and played my share of old Teles and Strats, and I'm at the point where I can pick one up unplugged and know right away if it's going to work for me. It just feels 'alive', and that's sort of how I feel about P/P guitars as well, you can just feel the whole guitar resonating, it's difficult to explain. I think it may have also been Herb who said, "Some folks get it about P/Ps, some don't." I'm not saying if you don't like a P/P, you don't know what good tone is, clearly there are plenty of other brands that sound and play great. It's just that everybody has a different set of 'sensors'.. LOL.

[Roger Rettig]

I was at Joe Glaser's shop years ago and he had a white '66 Tele. I picked it up and played it - light as a feather, and it sang, all on its own!

Of course I tried to buy it. Joe said: "Guys with real deep pockets (read 'millionaire guitarists') have tried to buy this, yet it's still here...."

That was one of those magic instruments. I didn't need to hear it through an amp. It still haunts me.

[K Maul]

I’ve had a couple of Emmons cuttail push pulls and I do agree they had a sound, feel & a musicality that is lacking in others. However I just couldn’t deal with the mechanics which I found onerous so I let them go. I had a Carter D10 that I thought had a bell like tone, if not quite the same “tactile feedback”, of an Emmons. I don’t know why I got rid of that. With what I can do I probably don’t really deserve a push pull anyway - ha ha. I get a fairly decent sound out of my Bud, my EXCEL and my Justice. I have learned over the years that putting the bass too high on the amp really kills things no matter what kind of guitar you have.

[Donny Hinson]

I must admit that I'm often perplexed by the penchant, the absolute and almost maniacal demand, that most all pedal steelers have for this apparent treasure they call "sustain". It's almost as if they would stutter and go mad if they couldn't hold every chord or note at an even volume for 15 or 20 seconds. I sometimes feel that this dogged pursuit of theirs is really limiting in the expansion of the instrument into other areas and types of music. It paints us all with a very narrow mindset and an obstinate view of what is good and allowable, and what is not. This single-mindedness of pedal steelers for only one tone, only one "sound", translates sometimes to snobbery, and indeed many players (especially those using Emmons guitars) seem to look down upon those who choose to play something else. They seem to feel sorry and disappointed for their fellow pedal steelers who "just don't get it". It baffles me.

All this makes me marvel at guitar players, those universally adept guys that can put down a "magic" Telecaster and pick up a guitar with less, or even poor sustain, or (heaven forbid!) an acoustic guitar, and go right on playing fabulous music. Slow songs, fast songs, country, pop, bluegrass, even rock...it makes no difference. They'll make it work, they'll play masterfully and memorably --- on something that's not a Telecaster. They'll have a stable full of guitars that all sound different, and they'll appreciate all of them! Remarkable, isn't it?

Go figure.

[Bob Hoffnar]

I’ve had a couple of Emmons cuttail push pulls and I do agree they had a sound, feel & a musicality that is lacking in others. However I just couldn’t deal with the mechanics which I found onerous so I let them go. I had a Carter D10 that I thought had a bell like tone, if not quite the same “tactile feedback”, of an Emmons. I don’t know why I got rid of that. With what I can do I probably don’t really deserve a push pull anyway - ha ha. I get a fairly decent sound out of my Bud, my EXCEL and my Justice. I have learned over the years that putting the bass too high on the amp really kills things no matter what kind of guitar you have.

Kevin, I would like to hear more about your impressions of your Excel. It’s on my short list as a potential fly guitar if I ever start getting enough fly dates again. Maybe start another thread about your experience with it. I know Dave Easley loves his.

[Joe Alterio]

I've always been intrigued by the fact that the vast majority of pedal steels sound almost exactly alike - perhaps some slightly differing mids and sustain, but on record you can't hear a nickle's worth of difference. Whereas with 6-string electrics, regardless of pickup, you can generally tell a Les Paul from a Telecaster from a Stratocaster.

I've also found it interesting that console steels have a very distinct/unique sound that is quite different from that of a pedal steel - with one exception. I recently played a Justice single-neck pedal steel that sounded so much like a console steel my jaw dropped. I'm still scratching my head as to how Fred accomplished that....

[Bruce Bouton]

I've been noticing a trend here in Nashville.
A lot of the young players are adding
Emmons guitars to their collection.
There is a sound and quality in a push pull emmons, that I haven't been able to find in another guitar.
I lent a pushpull to a young player working in one of the top touring bands. He used it on a tv show because his road guitar was unavailible. After the taping he was requested to use the pushpull on the tour ,because of the sonic difference.
in the past 42 years I've used 4 different guitars during different periods(Zum,Franklin, Carter ) but, while they all sound great ,eighty percent of what I've done has been with an Emmons. That's the sound I'm comfortable with.
I do feel that there is a difference between steel guitars.
While both sound great , Dan Dugmore's Sho Pro sounds different from Paul's Franklin.They are distinctive voices.
These days I mainly play my push-pull or my Franklin. Both of these guitars have a clarity and midrange quality that sits well in a mix. They also have great sustain ,which makes life easier what your trying to hang a note through a four bar phrase.
At the end of the day it's important to find a guitar and make it a part of you. Lloyd's played the same guitar for fifty years.
A great player will find his voice on his instrument.

[Mitch Ellis]

eighty percent of what I've done has been with an Emmons. That's the sound I'm comfortable with.

Hello Bruce.
What kind of Emmons was it? By the way, I've always been a fan of your playing!

Mitch

[Roy Carroll]

I play a Mullen G2 and an Royal Precision. Both sound like me (good or bad). I play them through a 202 with a TT12 speaker cabinet. I can make it bite if needed, however, I tend to lean toward the darker side. I prefer that the highs do not cut so much and across the strings, they all sustain the same. I usually test the continuity before each gig. Each venue is different because of the acoustics.
I have tried a push pull 1 time in my life, it last 2 gigs. Loved the sound bit I could not work on it to make the changes I needed. If you like Push Pulls, good on you, I'm just a All Pull kinda guy.

[Ron Funk]

It is so great for total musician Bruce Bouton to provide input to the Forum!

Thanks Bruce
Ron

[Jeff Peterson]

I started this thread just kinda' to explain why I play what I do. I'll step back and say again that for me Emmons has what I want to hear. What I tried to explain is that dang thing that no one can seem to explain completely....certainly not me. What I hear is what you hear whenever JayDee Maness is playing...and THAT to me is the bark!! I love Emmons guitars, always have, even turned down free guitars from certain makers during the Clint Black (hot) years. Heck, Ron Lashley Sr. even dated my Mom!...didn't really help the endorsement, but it didn't hurt either...lol! Love 'em, use 'em, and that's just one players opinion.
I certainly understand just considering a players playing and performance, but, honestly...never just kinda' wonder...what the heck was he playing with? Last time I checked online, that's been like the number one question by players worldwide. I, for one, am certainly interested....always.
Great to hear from Bruce...and yes my friend, I hear you when you're lovin' your Emmons! Just great playing, always.