How do you wind low strings around tuning pegs?

Bill Llewellyn · From: San Jose, CA

The answer: It depends!

I've always found that my low stings, particularly the 12th string on my U12 (0.068), can only take about 1-1/2 turn before doubling over or squeezing out from the tapered area of the peg onto the full diameter portion, making tuning very touchy. Today, when restringing my whole guitar, I inadvertently cut the 12th string a bit short and it kept slipping and unraveling the wound outer portion. My solution was to manually unravel about 1-1/2" of the string to expose the single string innards, and use just that on the tuning peg. Not only did it solve the short string problem, but it made the string easier to tune. See here:

I'm now considering unwinding the ends of maybe the 12th-9th strings (next time I change them) on my U12 to make winding and tuning easier.

Does anybody else out there already do this?

------------------
Bill, steelin' since '99 | Steel page | My music | Steelers' birthdays | Over 50?

Bob Snelgrove · From: san jose, ca

Good idea. Bill

Is it "legal"?

bob

Bill Llewellyn · From: San Jose, CA

I don't know, Bob. I don't recall seeing it done before.

Although I had to do the same thing recently when I restrung a Kramer headless bass that I own. The lower strings wouldn't even pass through the holes in their tuning pegs without having the outer winding taken off.

------------------
Bill, steelin' since '99 | Steel page | My music | Steelers' birthdays | Over 50?

Jon Light (deceased) · From: Saugerties, NY

Let's let time be the test, Bill, but I'd worry about tuning stability resulting from further unravelling or slippaqge of the core thru the windings. Sometimes if I'm trying to strip a short length of shielded cable, the inner core starts slipping thru the woven shield. This may be quite irrelevant with very different frictions and stresses but the mental picture popped into my head.

Bill Llewellyn · From: San Jose, CA

Good point, Jon. Without compacted windings lying all the way between the roller and the tuning peg, the windings could slip. That slippage could work its way over the roller and cause a buzz, mistuning, or both. Hopefully there's enough grip left in the remaining windings between the roller and the peg to prevent that from happening.

My first guess is that it'll be ok. When I unwound the outer string from the core, it took some work. It was on there tight, so I think there would be a lot of resistance to slippage of the coils over the core wire. Secondly, at the point that the string passes over the roller, there is a lot of pressure forcing the outer windings to dig in to one side of the core string, further anchoring it in place. But, as you said, time will tell.

[This message was edited by Bill Llewellyn on 28 November 2004 at 07:55 AM.]

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

I wouldn't do it. I use a monster bottom string, a .079, and had to drill out the hole a bit, but I think it's important to get at least a couple of wraps. I was taught the 'over/under' method to lock the winding onto the string under the pressure of the string tension. My suspicion is that the winding will come loose and rattle. But I COULD be wrong. I wouldn't try it on a steel I was playing gigs on. Let us know if you do the experiment.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

Bill Llewellyn · From: San Jose, CA

Larry, will do. It's usually 6 months or so between restringings for me (you could say that I don't get out much)

so that string will have plenty of time, and hopefully enough usage, to go one way or the other.

Dave Ristrim · From: Whites Creek, TN

DON"T DO IT! You may get lucky a few times, but unraveling the outer winding will cause problems. The winding will loosen from the core. I've always just put around two turns plus a little more if it will fit. It depends on the peg, I've gotten away with just a turn or so.
Good luck and be safe.
Dave

Jerry Hayes · From: Virginia Beach, Va.

Hey Bill, I don't do it anymore but on my old ShoBud U-12 in addition to the usual tuning, I had a Keith/Scruggs banjo peg on the 12th string B which I set to lower to an A note. I had to bare the inner wire because it wouldn't go through the tuning peg hole. I don't do that on my steel now as I use a different form of universal with an E note on string 12, but on a couple of electric guitars I own, I've installed the Keith/Scruggs tuners and I have to peel it back for the low E strings. Have a good 'un....JH

------------------
Livin' in the Past and Future with a 12 string Mooney Universal tuning.

Bill Llewellyn · From: San Jose, CA

Hi all, I'm resurrecting this 2-year-old post to report that the low B string on my U12 pictured in the photo never unwound from the cutting I did on the outer winding. No buzzing, unravelling, or the like. Frankly, I was surprised. I now use this cut-back technique as my standard method for replacing that string. For other folks, YMMV ("your milage may vary"), and this certainly is not a solution that will work for all (the comments above are duly noted). But for me this has worked pretty well.

PS: I didn't keep the same string on for two years.

But I did replace it a couple of times using the same technique. It is very possible that folks who play more often or more firmly than I do may have issues with this method. Again, YMMV.

Al Terhune · From: Newcastle, WA

This is how I wind my strings. I put them through the hole, hold it tight, then start turning the key. Sometimes I only get three-quarter's of a turn before she's in tune. NEVER had slippage. I've never seen anyone else do this, so this is refreshing for me! In all honesty, there was no physics behind my short wrapping -- just lazyiness, but it works just fine.

Al

Steven Black · From: Gahanna, Ohio, USA

This is how I was taught how to restring my guitar, I start with the first string and hook it on the finger at the bridge, hold it straight tight to the other end of the guitar body, use my side cuts or dykes and cut them at the edge of left end plate, then feed a small 1/4" of string through the tunning key hole, then start turning the key, I do this to all the strings.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Sooner or later, you'll have a problem with the wrapping coming loose. I never bend or cut my strings before putting them through the hole!

Here's how I do it (after hooking the string at the changer)...

I insert the string through the hole from the back side, pull it through enough to allow the 1-2 wraps on the big strings, then wind the key a couple of turns (until the end is sticking straight up), and then cut the string off and finish winding the key up to pitch. (No more than 1-2 turns is required on the "big wires", and if you pull them up tight afterwards with your hand - to remove any slack or slop, there's negligible retuning due to compacting or movement.)

No buzzes, no scratches on the guitar at the keyhead, and no punctured fingers.

Robert Leaman · From: Murphy, North Carolina, USA

I never saw string windings wrapped around a tuning peg on a piano. However, the only two pianos that I am familiar with are my sister's Mason & Hamlin and a Bosendorfer. I know those windings do not slip. No one really changes piano strings very often because they supposedly go dead and/or have slipped windings.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

A piano is not a steel guitar. Bass strings on a piano are wound with copper, which is a far more maleable metal than the stainless steel or nickel used to wrap electric guitar strings. The copper does not have the "springiness" to it (unwrapping tendency) that the other harder, stiffer metals (stainless steel and nickel) have.

In addition, piano strings don't get changed very often for several reasons. First, pianists don't really crave the bright, sharp sounds that guitarists do. Second, piano strings are not subject to dirt, oils, and perspiration from the player's hands. Third, piano strings aren't constantly being pulled and relaxed like those on a guitar. Fourth, piano strings are not subject to fret wear, or wear from a sliding bar. Fifth, piano strings are much heavier than those on a guitar, so they just naturally last longer. And lastly, it's pretty darned expensive!

I've heard a restringing on a piano would normally be done every 50-100 years, or perhaps sooner in severe climatic conditions, or conditions of very heavy useage (many retunings).

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 15 November 2006 at 02:12 PM.]

Jim Peters · From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA, R.I.P.

I arc-weld mine to the tuning pegs, they never slip!

JP

David Mason · From: Cambridge, MD, USA

This might be peripheral, but in the bad, early days of Floyd Rose whammy bars, before you could (often) get reinforced strings, we used to melt a fine layer of solder onto the windings wrapped just above the string ball end. If for some reason I was forced to do what you're doing (doesn't a 0.068 get through the hole? Have you tried squishing the windings a bit with the flat part of your needlenoses?), I would be tempted to solder a few wraps of the winding to the core wire.

Forum Index > Pedal Steel		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: