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Topic: 10-1 and Bobbe's news letter |
Bill Mayville
From:
Las Vegas Nevada * R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 11:41 am |
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This has no disrespect for Bobbe.We all love the guy to death.To take him on would be stupid,with his nohow on the pedal Steel guitar.
But.I notice the Mullen complaint has usually been the thin sound with factory Pickup's. It has been constant with guys wondering what to do,including me.I have very good ears when it comes to sound.My new Mullen was a complete reject when I first heard it.After talking to the Mullen gang,we went with the 10-1's,and the guitar was a very good sounding guitar. No comparison to the first pick up's.I don't know anything about the E-66,and others, because I only have had Emmons (1) and the Mullen,which plays like a great steel,and of course my new Jackson,which plays like cutting through butter.Everyone's ears are different.I have met some of the guys that have tuning problems,and I think they are tone deaf.
My belief is some pickups make all the difference in the sound of some steels.
Bobbe. If you get mad at me ,I will still listen to your music every chance I get.I gave up trying to play as well as you do.
Bill Mayville |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 12:09 pm
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Everyone has a right to an opinion and there is a lot of good information "on the forum". There is also a lot of good information and opinion both on the forum and in Bobbe's newsletter. My Sho-Bud Pro II came with a Bill Lawrence pickup on the E9th neck and it did not have any of the Sho-Bud signature tone to it. I replaced that pickup with one from a Sho-Bud LDG pedal steel and I got the Sho-Bud sound wall to wall. Different pickups have not only different frequency responses, they have different phase responses (shifts) at these different frequencies. These can cause the very nature of the instrument's sound to change and not just affect the frequency response (highs and lows) of the instrument. The entire band I was worked with at the time marveled at the totally different sound I got from changing pickups. As a further experiment I temporarily put a low impedance pickup on the Sho-Bud (4k ohms!) and I got something of a tone character much like an old frypan. Not good for pedal steel but a totally different sound charaater. I believe each guitar does have it's own timbre and characteristic sound but so do pickups and you need the right combination or guitar and pickup to get the sound you desire.
Greg |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 12:12 pm
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Bill you and many others still don't get it, I'm not talking treble and bass here, Timbre is what I'm talking. Try real hard to understand this. Timbre is the difference between a Emmons P-P and a Mullen, WITH the same amount of treble on both. Suzuki violin and a Stradivaious, treble and bass don't enter into it, Ernest Tubb can't be made to sound like Barbra Strisand by EQing, A Mullen won't sound like a MSA, or anything else by EQing. Give ole' Ernest Barbras microphone and he'll sound just like her! NOT!
Bill, The Mullen pickups have never had a great reputation for a balanced sound, any other pickup will help a Mullen it seems by all that have played this guitar for a living. However I find the factory pickups satisfactory, some sound pretty great. But over all, a good Geo.L. helps them, Don't expect a Timbre change but a more balanced response you can expect.
bobbe[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 26 October 2006 at 01:21 PM.] [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 26 October 2006 at 01:23 PM.] [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 26 October 2006 at 01:35 PM.] |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 12:16 pm
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Boy Greg, this sure make thing easier, we'll all just put Sho-Bud pickups on any thing we want and presto! It will sound just like a Sho-Bud! I'll paint my car Ferrari Red and it will be twice as fast, but most of all, if it isn't Black, it never will sound good!
This topic? It has been here many times before. I'm just offering 50 years of 24 hour a day experience in my news letter for those that want to learn and not argue. I do this for a living and have for a long time, I'm not a plumber, Doctor, truck driver, farmer and don't tell those of you that are how to do your busness. I'm offering my knowledge to you, take it or leave it but I refuse to argue about what I know and have learned. This forum is not where I am going to expound my trade. Want to argue? Go ahead, want to learn some facts? Read the tips.
Bobbe
[This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 26 October 2006 at 01:17 PM.] [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 26 October 2006 at 01:31 PM.] |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 12:51 pm
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My Franklin came with Lawrence 705 pickups. I changed to Lawrence 710 pickups about 5 years ago. The Franklin still sounds like a Franklin and the different pickup did nothing to make me change the EQ on my Peavey (at the time) Nashville 400. The ONLY difference with the 710's was I got what sounded like more string separation (a good thing).
Don Sulesky has 710's on his Emmons Legrande II. It still sounds like an Emmons. |
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Jack Goodson
From:
new brockton,alabama (deceased)
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 2:02 pm
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| Bobbe: I usually do not discuss things like what would make my guitar sound better, i beleive that 90 percent is in the hands.i was born and raised around a fellow player by the name of julian tharpe and it did'nt matter what he played he still had his sound...thanks jack |
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Bill Mayville
From:
Las Vegas Nevada * R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 2:09 pm
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A fart will always smell like a fart.
The only difference in changing a pickup, is one may give it more Ballsey sound.Changing the tone is out of the question.Complimenting a tone ,like going to the 10-1 for an example, helps with the (you know what).Without changing pickups,sometimes,a lot of guitars would be traded off.I think,anyway.Everyone so far, is right with there opinions.
Bill Mayville( A new Jackson)
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 3:13 pm
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Now you are talkin' Bill, I totally, you do have me screaming with laughter though!
You are a funny guy, and you have a wonderful guitar! I know personally!
Yes again Bill., I do agree with this.
As I do Jack and Jack. (Two more good friends).
Bobbilino |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 3:16 pm
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I disagree with everything Bobbe says, even when I agree with him. It's a matter of principle!  |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 3:28 pm
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My sides are starting to hurt!!!!!!!!!!!!
Where is Pat Burns? Eric? Mike? Larry?
Bobbileeno |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 4:03 pm
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Bobbe,
I too have lots of experience and knowledge both as an electrical engineer and as a player. Sometimes I agree with your newsletter and sometimes I think you are way off base. My experience, if you read what I wrote above, details putting a certain Sho-Bud pickup on a certain Sho-Bud guitar. Both were likely needed to get the Sho-Bud sound. With the Bill Lawrence pickup on the Sho-Bud, I couldn;t detect much if any of the Sho-Bud sound. Just because you have an opinion on something does not make it golden. I disagree with many things you say and and agree with many others. While I appreciate your input and newsletter, I reserve the right to disagree with it on this forum without having to be told that everything you say is golden. No one should be afraid to afraid to post their opinions and in the case of the Sho-Bud mentioned above, that is fact.
Greg |
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Bill Duve
From:
Limestone .New York, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 4:43 pm
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Bobbes right of course, He has to be, hes the only one out there that sends me letters.
Im old, mebby too old but back in the day when I played in Bay City like 1960 guitars were made of wood, Today those songs still make them lonely wimmen cry in their beer after the cowboys have all gone home, I Had a Chet Atkins Tenneseean and a Gibson Les Paul And I can gurantee no pikup will make one sound like the other, So there ! |
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Wally Taylor
From:
Hardin, Kentucky, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 5:39 pm
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Well, for me, ole Wally Taylor, I am not interested in changing the E-66 pickup in my new BMI because I want it to sound like an Emmons, Sho-Bud or any other guitar. I am interested in string separation, tone and clarity, which with the E-66, I am just not getting. It may be the characteristic of the guitar and not the pickup, but all I know is I am not musically satisfied with the existing sound. I have talked to many players on the forum and many have related that the TrueTone fullfilled what they were looking for. And many are happy with the E-66. But to MY ears, the E-66 just ain't cutting it, so I look for a pickup that will sound like what I am looking for. And if a new pickup doesn't remedy my problem, then a new steel will be on the horizon. I am most thankful for this forum as it allows players to express their views and that is just what it is, "their views". But that is a good thing. Greg is just as passionate with his views as is Bobbee. Good! I benefit from seeing both sides and will reap the benefits of these views. I highly respect all views, but it is up to me to make my own personal choice about my guitar. I just want to try a different pickup and see if it helps. If it does, great! If not, then I learned a valuble lesson. Thanks to all that had an opinion and what a great forum this is.
Wally Taylor |
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Lee Baucum
From:
McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) The Final Frontier
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 6:51 pm
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| The ears hear what they hear. |
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Jack Francis
From:
Queen Creek, Arizona, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 7:19 pm
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Bill....."A fart will always smell like a fart."?
Not mine...They smell like a fine perfume!
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 8:16 pm
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Greg Cutshaw, you certainly do have the right to agree or disagree with me, and I do you. this is my personal right. You chose to put your opinion on the forum, so did I. I feel you might be a electrical engineer, but I have no way of knowing as this is not my field. Steel guitar is my business and has been since before you were born. Your opinions might be more interesting if you could tell me what you have done to base your opinions on instead of just being so opinionated, or it seems as though you are doing more than just "voicing an opinion " with no proof of what you are talking about.
Being an electrical engineer makes you no more of a good hearing musician than my playing and past makes me a good electrical engineer. You want to read more of my personal opinions here about you, go ahead and tell me yours.
Hey eveyone, this is not a serious debate here so don't read anything negitive into this, Greg is an old friend of the family. We are not fighting, just debating like politicians. My part is in humor mode.
Now go fix your hearing aid Greg! (yep, I'm just a pickin' on ya')
Bobbe [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 26 October 2006 at 09:18 PM.] [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 26 October 2006 at 09:33 PM.] [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 26 October 2006 at 10:16 PM.] |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 8:39 pm
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Wally, good post. Your reason for wanting another pickup is the perfect reason, just to make your guitar sound better, not to make it sound like any other brand of guitar. This is a brilliant statement
The reason great singers want great microphones is to make them sound better, not to make them sound like anybody else.
Yes sir, you made a brilliant buncha talkin' there! I have never agreed more.
Everone should read this and think about it. If this is what every one is saying here, (including Greg) then I totally agree with you all, if not, we are back to square one.
Is this funny stuff or not?
Bobbe [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 26 October 2006 at 09:41 PM.] |
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Jim Sliff
From:
Lawndale California, USA
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 8:55 pm
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I've studied pickups, had them made to spec, custom wound a few...and Bobbe is dead-on.
The basic timbre of the guitar is what it is. A pickup CAN change the frequency response, the output...but not the basic tone. This is something common between 6-strings and steels. Pros change pickups or have them custom wound often - to do subtle things to the sound, not change the basic tone.
A Telecaster with a spongy neck joint and dead wood will sound like the same crap no matter what pickup you put in it. A Strat with a humbucking still sounds like a Strat.
You CAN twist things a bit with extreme changes - winding a steel pickup to a very low impedance will make it somewhat Fender-like...that's been proven. But it won't change the basic timbre of the guitar, nor its sustain to any great degree (other than increase it due to decreased magnetic pull).
But taking a Lawrence out and putting a Truetone in, or a George L, will do minor things to frequency response - equivalent to adjusting the tone and volume controls (if your guitar had them).
I've used 6-string pickups with boost coils - they make the guitar sound very different. But on a specific Telecaster, it's still going to basically sound like THAT Telecaster.
If you are experienced enough and can hear subtle nuances in tone, changing pickups can be fun to find your own individual sound - but there is NO magic bullet pickup that will make a bad-sounding guitar sound good. In fact, having done blind tests, most players can't tell a humbucking from a single coil without *knowing* it's there.
And the idea of needing a Shobud pickup to make a Shobud sound like a Shobud is preposterous. It's the same wood/mechanism, and changing the brand name on an assembly of #43 wire wound a round a bobbin and magnets isn't going to make it into a Wilcox...[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 26 October 2006 at 09:59 PM.] |
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Bobbe Seymour
From:
Hendersonville TN USA, R.I.P.
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Posted 26 Oct 2006 9:07 pm
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Brilliant Jim, I didn't know you had it in you! Smart man.
By the way I'm finally back to the store and my ridiculous sec. said she's been talking to you about lift kits for your new GFI, well I'm back to do what I can for you.
My suggestion is what you have already done, call Bob at GFI and trade him your steel guitar legs and rods for the longer ones you need. I'll be a go-between if you need me to.
This goes for all GFI owners, want to change the altitude of your guitar? Call the GFI factory, Bob and Gene will make you happy folks , a lot cheaper than buying a standard type of lift kit.
We also sell a chrome leg kit for the Magnum guitar that is totally extendable. And beautiful.
Bobbe |
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Don Barnhardt
From:
North Carolina, USA
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Posted 27 Oct 2006 4:37 am
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| Bobbe...I emailed your website about a week ago and haven't recieved a reply. If you didn't recieve it how do I get in touch with you? |
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Greg Cutshaw
From:
Corry, PA, USA
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Posted 27 Oct 2006 4:50 am
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Bobbe, my ears are sure not what they used to be! Changing the pickups in that old Sho-Bud was night and day for sound. Everyone around agreed it was an incredibly different change in sound. No doubt some pickups will effect a small change in frequency response but this was a dramatic change in tone color.
I have wound pickups to different specs and changing the resistance about 500 ohms per coil does make subtle differences in the sound. A few K ohms even more dramatic. Scatter winding the coils make a bigger difference and I am sure that there was something quite different about the way that Bud pickup was constructed, either in the shielding, magnetic circuit or windings.
I have Truetones on my MSA and they seem to have excellent string separation. The MSA does have a very even sound (timbre) from neck to neck and even from the high to low strings. Thus I don't seem to have to stay within a certain pocket of strings or area of the fretboard to get a sweet tone. For sure you need to get the right pickup on the right guitar to get the sound you are looking for. They are both very important.
Greg |
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winston
From:
Frankfort, Kentucky 40601
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Posted 27 Oct 2006 6:58 am
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| Years ago at the Lexington Steel Show I asked Bobbe how I could change my ShoBud sound as I was tiring of it. What other pickup could I use? His answer was plain and simple, "If you don't like the sound of your shobud the buy another guitar, you cannot change the sound of the guitar." He knows what he is talking about. Winston May |
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Wayne Wallett
From:
Shermans Dale, PA USA - R.I.P.
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Posted 27 Oct 2006 7:21 am
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Not to get off subject...but I have a question. I have a Super Pro with 24K ohm pickups in both necks. Love em...ever hear of that high of ohms? They are not heavy sounding and are hot as far as output. Nice Sho-bud sound. Your comments?????
Thanks...Wayne |
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Rick Collins
From:
Claremont , CA USA
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Posted 27 Oct 2006 8:25 am
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| Quote: |
| "A fart will always smell like a fart."? |
...and there's a good reason for this:
It's because they are "all-push" __ never "all-pull or "push-pull".
Some are more rank than others, some are more volumous than others. They almost never have a great sound. Maybe in an elevator being the exception.  [This message was edited by Rick Collins on 27 October 2006 at 09:26 AM.] |
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Terry Sneed
From:
Arkansas,
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Posted 27 Oct 2006 8:51 am
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I have stock pickups on my Mullen RP and they sound great to me, and I think I can still hear purty good. Not sayin I won't ever change to a 10-1 or a Truetone. I have to say though, I always thought a different pickup would change the tone of any steel.
But, I'll take Bobbe's word for it, cause I don't think there's anybody that knows more about steel guitars than Bobbe Seymore. Bobbe, ustjay endsay ymay oneymay inya ethay ailmay. 
Terry
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Mullen RP D10 /8x5 / MSA Classic 8x4 Nashville 112 x 2 / American Tele and Fender
Hotrod Deville 2x12's
Thank God for music.
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