Bob please close.Thank you !!!'

[Pete McAvity]

My thought begins with the question: is pedal steel going the way of the dodo?
I think the answer is yes, but gradually, and I don’t know if that trend is reversing. As has been discussed into the ground, the rate limiting steps to the continuance of a steel guitar community and culture are A) accessabiliy and B) applicable learning resources.
From where I sit, Paul Franklin has solved the tutorial bottleneck with his online Method courses. There are plenty of good teachers here offering their services, and they are indispensable for integrating the instructional aspect with real world application. While I see the Franklin Method as comprehensive, plenty of other paths are available.
As for the first impediment, a functioning machine that is within reach can be the difference between a foot in the door and never leaving the gate. I’d venture a guess that most guys getting into steel have no way of imagining what could be done w/ a full set up & have their hands full w/ what would have come on a Maverick 50 years ago. A guitarist is far more likely to pop $600 to try out a new armpit guitar/amp/steel in my estimation, than they will $1k. If it doesn’t pan out (we know there’s a high attrition rate), or wants to upgrade, he can sell it for $500 & seed another guy’s journey. While there’s no way to say without collating a bunch of retrospective data, gut tells me that a guitar this affordable will increase the number of steel initiates exponentially.
One more question is- why even consider posting a goal of increasing the number of steel students? Personally, I’d like to see where it goes. I agree w/ Mr. F that this instrument is in its infancy. Aside from that, I can attest to how it has enriched my life, and wish the same for as many as possible. All of this said, I think that having a 2 & 1 ten stringer is waaaay more beneficial and will net more fish, than offering a more expensive unit w/ more options. Not only that, but if it has a “kit” option, students can learn the mechanics (and gain a sense of accomplishment in a world where everything is prefab and disposable) by adding pedals & levers as they go.

You go, Mr. K. I think affordability is the key.

[Bill McCloskey]

PNot mentioned, but for us lap steelers, this would definitely be interesting to have in the arsenal. A full blown pedal steel is a bit too much for someone like me who is focused on a 12 string extended Alkire Eharp lap steel tuning, but at $600, I would definitely pick one of these up just for some special effects I can't get on the lap steel. My guess is your first clients will be the lap steel community who are just looking to add some steel effects.

[Dave Grafe]

As for going the way of the dodo, survey says otherwise

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/03/arts ... uitar.html

[Jon Light]

From my experience working on a Carter-Starter, I believe it was a very good idea and was almost a very good, very inexpensive steel. There were two critical errors (IMO) that $30 of parts and labor would have prevented (leftward-moving lever stops and the pedal stops). I've got to believe that the business model of building it to a price-point left so little margin for added expenditure that they opted for these weaknesses rather than address them.

My point is that they almost found a way to build a good entry level guitar. Instead, they ended up with an almost good one with a lot of people sneering at the flaws.
I know that you have done some upgrades on C-S's, Johnie, and that you know what I'm talking about.

If you are careful to avoid these pitfalls and price the guitar accordingly (if it's more $$ than you planned, at least it's because you've made it better than it might have been if you cut every corner), then I think you are on to a very good idea.

I will continue to advise beginners who ask me that they should get a minimum 10 string 3+3. But if they say that there's no way they will have that $$ in the next year, you offer a real Plan B.

[Pete McAvity]

Thanks for linking that article Dave- that’s what I’m talking about! Music will continue to grow in surprising directions & Im looking forward to it.

[Tony Glassman]

So……..what will the price be per additional pedal or knee lever?

For comparative purposes with other entry level steels, I’m curious to know what the cost of the guitar would be with 3 + 4.

[K Maul]

When Justice came up with their idea of the two pedal one knee lever guitar I bought one. It was well-made and did plenty of tricks for some of the things I wanted to do. I couldn’t believe all the crap that came up on this site around that guitar. “Oh it’s not a real steel. Oh - you need at least six knee levers and nine pedals to really do anything “. That kind of attitude is why the steel might be having such a hard time. Lately I’m seeing more and more young people picking it up. I think the more options for a simple, affordable, well-built guitar that someone can start on (that won’t fall apart when you try to play it) is a very very good thing. So Johnnie I applaud you.

[Johnie King]

Thanks !

[Johnie King]

Thanks!

[Doug Taylor]

From my 3 years of playing point of view I would have loved to had the opportunity to purchase an instrument in this price range. Maybe I am not the average guy but it was well over a year before I needed much past A-B pedals. I was so busy trying to learn to block cleanly and just hit the 4 groups this would have been a Perfect fit!

I decided at 63 to start and did not have a lot of cash to invest so I would up with a 40 year old Sierra. I would have definitely bought one of these at that price had it been available. We need as many new guys coming along as we can get.

Thank you Johnny King.

[Michael Sawyer]

I think it is a great idea,and i will tell you from my own experience.
I was playing lap steel( not very good)in a band.
I soon came to realize i couldn't get the sounds i wanted without pedals.
I found a fender 400,and for the first couple of months only used AB pedals.I soon saw uses for more changes as i started getting a grip on the instrument.
Over time i learned to use my 4 pedals and added 3 knees.Now at 5 years in, i have a 4x5 Mullen Discovery on order.
Being able to easily add pulls to a very basic affordable guitar while learning is the deal.
Best of luck.

[Jerry Overstreet]

...so when can we expect to see this new entry into the steel guitar market?

[Donny Hinson]

Tired of hearing about the "high" cost of getting a pedal steel when people are spending over a grand for a smartphone, a few grand for fancy wheels for their ricer or bimmer, or even a couple of hundred for a pair of sneakers...all without batting an eye.

Just be glad we don't play vibes or a concert harp.

[Johnie King]

Your so right Donny , just the tip of the iceberg too.

[Johnie King]

Thanks everyone!!!'

[Dave Grafe]

Tired of hearing about the "high" cost of getting a pedal steel when people are spending over a grand for a smartphone, a few grand for fancy wheels for their ricer or bimmer, or even a couple of hundred for a pair of sneakers...all without batting an eye.

Just be glad we don't play vibes or a concert harp.

What you said Donny!

[Jon Light]

Just for the record -- if my comment above was taken as negative, then that's my failure to express what I was trying to say.
It was an encouragement to be careful to not cut certain corners.
It's a fine line between inexpensive and cheap.

I was helped out by a post of yours where you fixed the lever stop on a C-S, Johnie. It gave me ideas for repairing one that a client brought in.
That's why I said that I know that you know about the C-S and where it fell short.

[Gary Spaeth]

if i were a teacher i would buy a bunch of these and rent them to prospective students, maybe even on a rent to own basis. i remember the first year i played i pretty much stayed on the 2 pedals and 1 knee lever so this is a great idea.

[D Schubert]

There is a lot of interest in the Duesenberg and Certano palm lever systems for lap steel and guitar, as a way to get from there to there. Maybe you'd put them in the same category as the old Bigsby Palm Pedal but it's another way for a player to bridge the gap between guitar and pedal-land.

My experience: The palm levers are well designed but physically awkward, too much to do with one right hand. A shoulder operated b-bender works just fine for me. More chatter about that in the "almost a steel" category .

But a simple steel with changer that's foot-actuated might be the best deal for a beginner. Or an older player who's late to the party, but wants just the simplest IV and V changes on his instrument. Good luck, Johnnie King. It might be the missing link that folks are looking for!

[Bob Carlucci]

Johnnie.. If there is a way to make a $600 pedal steel that works, and is dependable, you will have more business than you can deal with... Guys are paying that for MIC 6 string guitars that are copies of copies of the originals.

I agree with Jon about the Starter.. The idea was right, but there were just some flaws in the design where "cheapness" prevailed, and made the Starter much less than it could have been.. I would rather they charged an extra $50 and addressed the knee lever and pedal stop problems with proper parts..

If you can do something similar and make it so that it works well, and sounds decent, doesn't have major design flaws that cause problems, at $600 to start, you'll have a serious problem filling orders due to demand.. I have no use for it at my age , but would buy one anyway at that price, just because... bob

[Donny Hinson]

Johnie, I'm sure that the price point will meet with many who are interested, and I applaud you for doing this. My question is, will this be like a Hudson (with 4 more strings), or something different?

[Matthew Murray]

That is a nice looking steel I would buy one.

[Jimmie Hudson]

...so when can we expect to see this new entry into the steel guitar market?

https://growlersteelguitars.com/

[Johnie King]

Thanks!

[K Maul]

I looked at the site. Basically a good looking product. Now the many questions and critcisms will come.