Finger Picks - how necessary are they?

Matthew Kresge · Post by **Matthew Kresge** » 21 Jul 2022 9:36 pm

I know most, if not all of you are going to tell me they are essential and you of course know more than I do (I only began playing earlier this year) but what is the downfall of not using them? I know of and have seen players who do double duty live, switching between guitar and pedal steel and don't bother with finger picks in this setting. Never seem to notice any real difference. As a guitar player of 30+ years who never used finger picks, I'm having the hardest time playing the pedal steel with them...which I know is common with beginners but I feel I'm progressing with my understanding and capabilities with the instrument quicker than my ability to play with finger picks is allowing me to do and hence find me progressing at a nice clip without using them currently.

There are of course countless guitar players who have succeeded at playing guitar without the aid of a pick, be it plectrum or finger picks. What is it about the pedal steel that makes it so different that not using finger picks is generally frowned upon?

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 21 Jul 2022 11:40 pm

Expect some long answers, but if you want to play in a band and produce the sound that they and the audience are expecting, persevere with the picks!

K Maul · Post by **K Maul** » 22 Jul 2022 12:04 am

At least use a thumb pick.

Andrew Goulet · Post by **Andrew Goulet** » 22 Jul 2022 4:30 am

This seems to be an oft-discussed topic on the forum. If you haven't already, search for past threads for exhaustive discussion.

Do what works for you. However, consider this: it might take you a year or so to fully adjust to picks, and then you'll have easy access to clean notes and sharp attacks. Proceed without picks, and it might take much, much longer to get the accuracy, speed, and attack you (and bands) desire.

IMO, it's better to view picks as a tool in the toolbox. Not using them should be a stylistic choice, rather than something you're forced into.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 22 Jul 2022 5:09 am

Sit at the guitar for hours, and hours WITH FINGER PICKS picking the four triad string groups. Over and over and over again. Do this for two weeks until you feel naked without the finger picks. There is no wiping out. The pedal steel is the hardest instrument and routinely makes mince meat out of guitar players
Whole different world.

chuck lemasters · Post by **chuck lemasters** » 22 Jul 2022 5:47 am

There are many examples of guys who, at least at times, played without picks…Bobby Seymour comes to mind…for a hack like me, there’s no way I could play as well without picks….getting used to picks is one of the many hurdles that must be addressed with this frustrating instrument…like hand position, blocking, bar control, tuning issues, seating position, etc.

Tom Keller · Post by **Tom Keller** » 22 Jul 2022 6:43 am

If you want to play like your heroes and the best in the business finger picks are a must, but hey who knows, maybe you will be the next trend setter.

Dave Hopping · Post by **Dave Hopping** » 22 Jul 2022 8:54 am

I tried using just a thumbpick onstage once. What I got was muddy sound and chewed-up fingers.

Barry Yasika · Post by **Barry Yasika** » 22 Jul 2022 9:44 am

I play a lot of acoustic guitar and I've gone back and forth with finger picks. I finally just did without them altogether. The good part of doing that is that I seem to have alot more control of the strings when I can feel them. I also get a much more mellow tone.

Using finger picks brightens up my sound and I get more volume and sustain which is why I like using them when I'm playing steel. I get that classic "clang like a bell" tone once the string slides of the end of the finger pick. It takes time but you learn different ways to attack the strings which can help vary the notes tone that your playing. You also get a much better staccato effect if your playing something faster and are able to develop either pick or palm blocking.

I guess the best thing to do is don't fight comes natural to you. Your sound comes from the way you play your guitar. How you touch the strings, with or without picks and how you use your other hand to control the bar. Once you've found a comfortable touch you'll begin to sound about the same on most any guitar you play, along with any amp or effects you use. It's kinda like using different styles of pens or pencils to sign your name, your signature is usually pretty consistent regardless of the apparatus you use.

Pat Chong · Post by **Pat Chong** » 22 Jul 2022 10:18 am

Hi Matt,

This answer may be simplistic, but had not been mentioned. When you wear the picks, they cover the finger tip, not the finger nail. I don't know if you are wearing them wrong, or not, but wearing them correctly speeds things up, plus all the other issues brought up.

Full speed ahead....Engage!........Pat

K Maul · Post by **K Maul** » 22 Jul 2022 10:33 am

Kevin Hatton wrote:Sit at the guitar for hours, and hours WITH FINGER PICKS picking the four triad string groups. Over and over and over again. Do this for two weeks until you feel naked without the finger picks.

Amen!
I might add: wear them around the house when NOT practicing too. I can say after using them for 30+ years that I can feel the strings right through the picks. They are a part of my body.

Andrew Goulet · Post by **Andrew Goulet** » 22 Jul 2022 11:54 am

Good point by K Maul, here. Wear them when you're not playing! Sounds weird but it definitely helps your mind adjust to them as well as toughens the skin to make them more comfortable.

One thing I forgot to ask: what type of metal and thickness are you using for the fingerpicks? What size for the thumb pick? Things got way better for me when I switched from thick stainless steel to thin brass. Likewise, my standard thumbpick is a large National, but a "large" Dunlop is torturously small. It's worth the money to get an assortment of materials, sizes, and brands when you're first starting out.

Gene Tani · Post by **Gene Tani** » 22 Jul 2022 12:37 pm

I was always a thumbpick user from way back, then I started on banjo and 6 string guitar with a thumbpick and one fingerpick on index to get used to basic motions like crossovers, after that, ease into it

and yes, lots of old threads about getting right fit and right picks, bending the bands and blades w/needlenose pliers wrapped in duct tape, just search "without fingerpicks" and "adjust fingerpick"

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=2493569

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=3012799

Andrew Frost · Post by **Andrew Frost** » 22 Jul 2022 5:18 pm

Matthew, do you use a pick when you play guitar? If so, then perhaps thinking about why, and what advantages a plectrum offers on the guitar, will offer a parallel insight into the advantages of using picks on steel guitar... Good luck. Lots of great music to be made either way.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 22 Jul 2022 6:28 pm

If you picked the best 10, best 25, or even the best 100 players of all time, you'd find that they all used picks. That speaks volumes! But...I'm kind of sitting on the fence here, and I personally don't really care if you play with a fork and a spoon.

What will count, in the end, is how good you sound and how happy you are with your own playing. So go right ahead and do whatever you like. I am, and always have been, a firm believer in "It's not what you use, it's what you can do with what you use"!

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 22 Jul 2022 6:34 pm

What is it about the pedal steel that makes it so different that not using finger picks is generally frowned upon?

I can think of two things. First, its the string tension. The buggers are tight and they can make a mess of bare fingertips and weak nails. Second, it’s the way we’ve always done it.

After playing steel with fingerpicks for 5 years, I’ve decided to go without them for a while. Just thumb pick and bare fingers. I am enjoying the process, and it is convenient for me since I am doing double duty on guitar, which I also play thumb pick and finger style. So the callouses on my picking fingertips are already there. I think that is a big issue, especially if your fingernails are not durable.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 22 Jul 2022 9:18 pm

I recorded this a few days ago without picks. It's a softer sound, but it doesn't have to be. There are some rock guitar icons who play without picks. Lindsey Buckingham, Derek Trucks, Jeff Beck, and Mark Knopfler, to name a few.

I've never been strong enough at it to play without picks in a band context on stage. Plus, it's not sound that people expect to hear. It's a softer, more sensitive tone with greater dynamic range. I find that I don't use or need my volume pedal as much when playing without picks. I play a different style.

You will have more sustain using picks and good volume pedal technique. As others have said, that's the sound that bandleaders and audiences expect from our instrument.

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 23 Jul 2022 2:33 pm

Whether you use picks or not is your choice.

But if you want to use picks, Make sure they fit you exact and comfortable. Most picks have holes in the bands, They will act as hinges and make a sort of hexagon form. Those kinks will stick out and one pick will catch on the other and 1 of the picks will go flying.

I actually form picks with a small hammer around a 3/8" drill shank or steel rod in a padded vice. If you have small fingers you may have to cut the wrappers shorter so they do not overlap.

A new set of picks, One fitted 1 to go.

If a set of picks does not fit your fingers comfortable, You have lost the battle before you start.

Once you get a set of picks fitted, Don't let someone use your picks to show you a lick or grip. They will bend them and you will have to refit them.

In my seat I have what I call "Go Fish Bag". Several picks I have collected over the years. My picks go in my pocket.
Good Luck and Happy Steelin

Matthew Kresge · Post by **Matthew Kresge** » 24 Jul 2022 4:04 pm

Pat Chong wrote:Hi Matt,

This answer may be simplistic, but had not been mentioned. When you wear the picks, they cover the finger tip, not the finger nail. I don't know if you are wearing them wrong, or not, but wearing them correctly speeds things up, plus all the other issues brought up.

Full speed ahead....Engage!........Pat

Ha...yes! That much I have down already!

Thank you all for taking the time to give feedback. It's appreciated and gives me something to think about. The good news is I sat down today with finger picks on (first time trying them in probably a month) and I was actually shocked to find I was able to play 3 or 4 of my licks cleanly with no issue. I was shocked but it gave me a glimmer of hope that 'ok, maybe it IS possible'. I have yet to play in a band setting so it sounds like I'll understand the necessity of picks better once I'm competing with other instrument volumes.

David Ball · Post by **David Ball** » 24 Jul 2022 4:32 pm

My nails have become too brittle to play pick-less any more. I like the tone of fingers and nails on the strings, but it's just not an option for me now.

I played pick-less on guitar for years, but used picks on banjo and steel. Getting used to using picks for playing thumb style guitar took some getting used to, but it's working fine now.

Dave

David Dorwart · Post by **David Dorwart** » 25 Jul 2022 8:55 am

Is there a reason not to wear picks?

Henry Matthews · Post by **Henry Matthews** » 25 Jul 2022 9:28 am

David Dorwart wrote:Is there a reason not to wear picks?

NO

admin · Post by **b0b** » 25 Jul 2022 9:58 am

David Dorwart wrote:Is there a reason not to wear picks?

The tone, sensitivity, and attack characteristics of bare fingers are sometimes desirable, but they don't really work in the kinds of music that we are hired to play. I used the flesh of my fingertips (not fingernails) for this recording recently and I think it was the right choice.

It's been a long time, but I remember that I didn't wear picks on most (maybe all) of the Diatonic Adventures album. Again, this isn't the kind of music that anyone would hire a steel player for. It was strictly a vanity recording project.

In dance bands and concerts I've always worn picks. They project the sound to the audience. They are necessary. In recordings, though, sound projection can be controlled in mixing and mastering. It can be a deliberate choice to get a specific tone or attack envelope.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 25 Jul 2022 10:35 am

I'm not exactly sure why, but this subject comes up very often. There is a treasure trove of forum threads on the subject, some of which I link here -

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=372561

There are a lot more if you do the search yourself.

I think there are very legitimate musical reasons to sometimes play with thumb pick and no finger picks. On slide guitar, I often switch between finger picks on and off, and honestly prefer without. Not so on steel, either with or without pedals.

A big issue is string tension - stock pedal strings have pretty high tension and are a serious challenge on the nails or fingers/calluses. For tonal reasons, I generally prefer pretty stout strings without pedals.

Another issue is volume and tone. I guess if you have kryptonite nails, it might not be such a big issue. But it is for me. On gigs with a band, I sometimes find even slide guitar can get lost in the ozone without finger picks. For pedal steel on a gig with a typically loud band, no finger picks is a non-starter for me.

So if the question you're asking is, "Are finger picks always necessary for playing pedal steel?", I'd say no. But if the real question you're asking is, "Should I just skip going to the effort to learn how to use finger picks to play pedal steel?", I'd also say no. I think you're limiting yourself too much to just be lazy and not learn to use finger picks. Been there, done that, I don't think it's a good idea. IMO, much better to have multiple technique options and pick the one that fits the music best than to just have one option. I said more about this here - https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... &&start=25

Before someone chimes in that Bobbe Seymour played without picks - well, sometimes he used picks and sometimes he didn't. There's a old thread where he discusses that specifically. I do not believe he would have ever told someone not to bother to learn to use finger picks. In fact, he was the one that told me that I should use three fingerpicks (index, middle, ring). I heeded that advice, for which I have always been grateful.

Fred Treece · Post by **Fred Treece** » 25 Jul 2022 11:15 am

David Dorwart wrote:Is there a reason not to wear picks?

Yes. If you’re doing double duty on guitar or piano or some other instrument that doesn’t involve technique and/or tone that is allegedly dependent on wearing metal fingerpicks - unless you have some lightning fast method of taking them off and putting them back on without missing the train for the next song.

I’m going to run my no-fingerpicks experiment for at least a year before I decide to either go back or not. It might be interesting (to me, anyway

) by then to see if there is any improvement in my technique or noticeable difference in tone with them on.