Do I really need pedals?

[Andrew Goulet]

Hi all,

I'm examining my current musical gear and situation and thinking about whether I really need to continue with pedals or if it's time to start focusing on non-pedal.
I'd love to hear from folks who have made the switch and what they think.


I've played pedal steel for almost 13 years. I play with classic country, swing, and rock bands, mostly, but I love all kinds of music.

Pros of pedals:

Pedals are very helpful to me for getting my primary chord changes, 7ths, minors, all that. It's got that classic country sound, of course. Stomp the AB and you give your band that sound they crave if they want to sound "country". I don't usually have to worry about slants (they're also harder on my 12 string Marlen with the string spacing). It's pretty easy for me to find most chords quickly with minimal movement.

Cons of pedals:

My guitar is heavy and takes longer to set up and tune. My Marlen is usually rock solid, but does require maintenance and has had undercarriage issues at unfortunate times. Physical limitations of the steel limit where and how well I can play (hard to set up outside to jam on a nice day or for outdoor gigs if there's no stage). I'm in a rut musically where I fall back on pedal licks too often. The band and crowd seem to like them, but I bore myself and I'm not progressing or maturing in a meaningful way, musically.

I pulled out my rarely used 6 string lap steel today to see how many slants I could figure out, and was amazed by how much I could do on it with a little practice. It doesn't sound exactly the same, of course, but I can get the AB and BC moves, the F lever, and more. Basically almost everything I regularly use pedals for. Not only that, but I found myself feeling and playing more freely, enjoying myself more! I was trying out new licks, new approaches to old progressions, etc... It was pretty eye-opening.

Some might say I can just incorporate more non-pedal approaches into my playing, and they're not wrong. But if I'm going to get good at slants and finding new ways around the fretboard, I need to devote myself to it completely. It doesn't make sense to me to be playing a closely spaced, 12 string tuning on pedal steel if I'm really only using 8 strings and getting my hand and ear used to playing slants in tune.

Am I crazy to throw away 13 years of progress and start again? Will my current bands show me the door? Will I miss the distinction of playing a rare and "extremely hard" instrument (although I kind of think non-pedal is more difficult). I don't know.

[Stefan Robertson]

Non-pedal is more difficult indeed.

12 strings keep them - 12 is more versatile than an 8 string..

Slants are easy on close string spacing once you get used to it. Plus it means you can achieve wider string grips and slants easier.

Big question is what tuning you settle on.

E13 is pretty close to pedal steel E9 but also C6.

[D Schubert]

I "took a vacation" from pedal steel for a few years, playing my 2x8 Stringmaster in a band with some younger musicians. Used a lot of bar slants, behind-the-bar pulls, and volume pedal swells, but was able to get a country enough sound. By that, I mean that many people that heard us told me how much they enjoyed my pedal steel playing.

(C13 tuning on the front neck, Leon's E13 on the back neck)

[Lee Gauthier]

Not sure how much help this is, but I came the other direction and played non-pedal for ~10 years before getting a pedal steel. I don't really see one as harder than the other. Navigating chords is a bit easier on pedal steel perhaps, but the coordination is challenging in a different way. I still love the simplicity of playing non-pedal and still use lots of slants on pedal because it gives you totally different sound.

If you are committed, once you get good at slants in both directions and can move one end of the bar a whole tone while holding the pitch of the other string still I think you can get enough of a "pedal sound" to keep most people happy. I did play around with some behind the bar bends too. I never got amazing with it, but it seems like there are lots of colours available with enough practice.

[Bob Watson]

I don't see why it has to be one or the other. I play both and enjoy the various aspects of each one. You might consider getting a lighter single 10 pedal steel if the weight is really bothering you, and you'll probably want to get an 8 string non pedal steel to dig into if you don't have one already, or even a D8. All musicians get into ruts now and then regardless of what instrument they are playing. There is way more than a lifetime worth of music to learn on either instrument. Dig into playing non pedal steel for a while and it will probably inspire your pedal steel playing in various ways.

[Bill Hatcher]

You have skill on the pedal guitar. Don’t ever toss that. My late friend tommy Dodd carried his pedal guitar fully assembled in his van. He had a hard fiber cover that allowed him to set the guitar on a hand truck. Walked into the gig…flipped the guitar over and plugged it in.

Best of both worlds. Get you a d10 guitar and use the front neck with pedals and the back neck with no pedals. You might find a d10 that someone has removed the C6 neck. Take the pad off and install a non pedal neck. You have options.

[Dave Mudgett]

I would not give up pedal steel. I like and play both pedals and non-pedal, and they both have a place in my world. I agree that playing without pedals definitely informs my playing with pedals.

I really like A6 for non-pedal, and on my SD-10 E9 pedal steel, I frequently re-tune the bottom two strings to give me a pretty complete A6 tuning on the bottom 8 strings with A&B pedals down - see this thread - https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=381130

If your 12-string is set up E9 with lo-hi B E G# B E on strings 12-8, then you should be able to get a very full A6 without retuning.

I like Bill's idea of putting a non-pedal neck on a double-wide guitar that has either a pad or a C6 neck. But that doesn't get you around the portability issue. My solution is a long-scale 8-string Clinesmith cast aluminum with Bigsby-style pickups. There are gigs I just bring that - it is awesome.

[David Matzenik]

Too me, they are two different instruments for two different musical genres. You can try to make one fit the other, but why bother?

[Daniel Baston]

I would tend to agree that you should not abandon the skills that you have worked hard to acquire! If you can swing it, I would recommend keeping your guitar and getting a really nice non-pedal guitar. That will make your non-pedal playing experience more satisfying. I would highly recommend Clinesmith. Either a lap steel, or a console if you can swing it. A D8 console will still be lighter than your Marlen, depends how portable you want to be. An old Fender or Rickenbacker console will be awesome too and a bit cheaper. In the mean time, to get out of the rut, maybe just try learning some things that are not "typical" pedal steel licks. Or maybe try learning some E13 western swing licks on E9. Etc.

[David Ball]

I'll join in on recommending a Clinesmith. Great guitars.

My main pedal guitar is an S8 Jackson, tuned to C6. I play it a lot like I would my Clinesmith 8 string lap, but the pedals and knee levers are set up in such a way to make some otherwise really difficult bebop and other melodic bits easier for me. I really treat the Jackson as more of an augmented lap steel than I do a pedal steel. Guess that's not really uncommon among C6 players.

I still get more requests to play E9 stuff, and it's fun. But I feel like I get more stuck in a cliche' rut there than I do on C6. But it's me, not the tuning.

Dave

[Ian Rae]

I play a B6/E9 uni 12
I like to play close harmony on the B6 side so I need the pedals for that, but when we do a blues number I don't, and I do enjoy the freedom!

[Andrew Goulet]

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts and suggestions.

I've got my lap steel in D6 now, to somewhat match the D6/9 tuning on the pedal steel. This conversation has provoked alot of thoughts about why playing non-pedal feels so different and leads to different approaches when playing music, and how I can mix the two more than I do now.

Played some high up slants for the intro to "Hey, Good Looking" at a show last night, and they were imperfect but respectable.

[b0b]

Thanks, everyone, for your thoughts and suggestions.

I've got my lap steel in D6 now, to somewhat match the D6/9 tuning on the pedal steel. This conversation has provoked alot of thoughts about why playing non-pedal feels so different and leads to different approaches when playing music, and how I can mix the two more than I do now.

Now you're talking my language.

It really helps to have the same open strings on pedal and lap steel. All of my steel guitars, no matter how many strings, now have G B D F# A D strings - my 6-string lap tuning of choice. The 8-string non-pedal and 10-string pedal steels all add to that. It means that I never have to mentally transpose to find a major or minor chord position on a different guitar.

I take a lap steel when quick setup and easy cartage are a priority, like at jam sessions or music workshops. Setting up and tearing down a pedal steel is sort of a big deal. I can put my little Rickenbacker in its case quickly and be gone. When people see the pedal steel flipped over in its case, some think the party's over.

I play both instruments at the same skill level (half fast) and enjoy both, so the choice is really a matter of my own preference for the situation. In a professional situation, it's the boss's choice to make, of course.

[Andrew Goulet]

I play both instruments at the same skill level (half fast) and enjoy both, so the choice is really a matter of my own preference for the situation. In a professional situation, it's the boss's choice to make, of course.

This right here is where my problems lie. I've realized that whilst feasting on the rich yellow corn of pedals I've neglected the sweet wild grass of bar slants and partial chords. I'd love to get to the point where my choice between lap and pedal steel is dictated more by the music and situation and less by own ability.

[James Inkster]

All of my steel guitars, no matter how many strings, now have G B D F# A D strings - my 6-string lap tuning of choice. The 8-string non-pedal and 10-string pedal steels all add to that.

I've been learning 8 string C6, but have always been a fan of dobro-G and open-D... I had never considered combining them -- brilliant!
If you were to apply this to 8 string, what would you make the two extra strings?
Do you keep GBDF#AD together (ie., add strings on the outside), or interject strings?

This has been the challenge for me jumping from dobro to 8-string C6 -- the extra string in the middle...

[b0b]

All of my steel guitars, no matter how many strings, now have G B D F# A D strings - my 6-string lap tuning of choice. The 8-string non-pedal and 10-string pedal steels all add to that.

I've been learning 8 string C6, but have always been a fan of dobro-G and open-D... I had never considered combining them -- brilliant!
If you were to apply this to 8 string, what would you make the two extra strings?
Do you keep GBDF#AD together (ie., add strings on the outside), or interject strings?

This has been the challenge for me jumping from dobro to 8-string C6 -- the extra string in the middle...

My 8-string tuning is G B D F# A B D F#. The top 6 strings are like C6th but a step higher; it still has that "extra string in the middle" that's been bugging you..

When I play dobro (rare for me), I slack the 2nd and 3rd strings down to F# and A. You can hear that tuning on my Stella CD. It's not a dobro but you'll get the idea. https://b0blee.bandcamp.com/album/stella

[Mick Hearn]

Personally I prefer lap steel to pedal. I was listening to Tommy White playing "That Girl Who Waits On Tables" and thought I may as well have a go on lap steel. C6 Tuning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYr8PwkxuWE

[Allan Revich]

It’s kinda been said, but really, there is no reason to frame this in terms of either/or.

So the short answer is, “no, you don’t really need pedals”. But the longer answer, is to play more non-pedal, without giving up your hard earned skills on the pedal steel.

At least that’s how this shmo sees it.

[Jean-Sebastien Gauthier]

Been there for sure! I think I bought and sold 5 pedal steels going back and forth from non pedal to pedal.

Now I’m fixed with my Fender Dual Pro, I use high G C13 and high G# E13, those high register tuning give me a sound closer to a pedal steel. I work hard on slant and use a lot of open strings while sliding on a lower strings to give a pedal sound.

My main inspiration to do so is Chris Scruggs.

[K Maul]

So use the Marlen in D6/9 and don’t hook up the pedals when you don’t feel like it. I made a ten string out of a cannibalized Sho~Bud Crossover neck and a Miller pull-release changer. I put on three knee levers from other stray parts. It’s in Extended Don Helms E6. I’m always changing it but this is the current setup for my Honky Tonk/Swing band the TWANGBUSTERS. I am thinking about changing over to a D6 but I really LOVE those high whinny notes that some find so irritating! Haha.

[James Inkster]

I put on three knee levers from other stray parts. It’s in Extended Don Helms E6. I’m always

Interesting. I am using this same tuning (the top 8, at least) on my lap steel and was about to install two palm levers.
I was planning to put them on the G# (up to A) and B (up to C#), as those are two string pulls i frequently use.
I see you don't raise those at all with your pedals, rather opting for F, D and Bb.
Can you please provide insight into that selection? Maybe i should consider that...

Thanks

[K Maul]

The flat 5 Bb is very handy for an 11 or dom 7/9 type chord two down. The E-F gives a 5 chord one fret back and a partial diminished chord. The D makes a simple E13 type chord straight across, even more complete if I also raise the E-F#. I’m not a chord genius but I like the way they sound. I figured they were more useful to me than raising the G#s to A and redundant raising the B to C# for a simple A chord. However, as previously stated, I frequently change things. I might consider raising the top G#-A and lowering the 5th string G#-G, like on C6 tuning raising string 2 E-F and lowering 6 E-Eb.