who was the steel player with Dr hook

Wayne Brown · Post by **Wayne Brown** » 6 Jun 2022 11:09 am

Hi mods if this is not in the right catagory please move it to where it belongs...thanks.

I have been looking for years to find out who played the steel lead break on the recording of "If Not You " by Dr hook. Any help sure would be appreciated. That break has always been one of my favorites. Very haunting
thanks
wayne

Larry Dering · Post by **Larry Dering** » 6 Jun 2022 3:42 pm

Wayne, I can't identify the player, but I was surprised to find they used one at all. I listened to the track and sure enough has pedal steel. Never seen a steel at a live show that was aired. Very cool that a steel was put on the track. Hard to find players info from 1976 from the sources I know.

Wayne Brown · Post by **Wayne Brown** » 6 Jun 2022 3:42 pm

That steel in that song makes the whole song. I saw an old video of them doing it live and the lead guitarist tried and failed miserably to portray himself playing that lead on a hollow body 6 string . Not at all well scripted LOL... well the closest i could find was George Cummings. I hope I got this right. That has got to be one of my favorite passages
thanks
Wayne

Larry Dering · Post by **Larry Dering** » 6 Jun 2022 5:21 pm

I will continue to look for a clue. I'm not familiar with George as a steel player. Looking at his history he played some slide guitar and was involved in Peaveys slide guitar development. The recording sounds like a pedal steel to me. I think it requires more research.

Mike Auman · Post by **Mike Auman** » 6 Jun 2022 5:25 pm

The album (A Little Bit More) was recorded at Glaser Sound Studios in Nashville and released in 1976, so it could have been any of the usual suspects who played steel on Nashville sessions in 1975-76...

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 6 Jun 2022 6:50 pm

Dunno,but the player is very good! George Cummings had left the year before, and though he played some steel, he never played at this level. I'd guess a "pro" session player like Lloyd or Pete , definitey one with a country music background.

Dave Magram · Post by **Dave Magram** » 6 Jun 2022 9:49 pm

According to PragueFrank:

November 1975 [no 21244] Glaser Sound Studio, 916 9th Ave. South, Nashville, TN – Dr. Hook (Dennis Loccorere [vcl], Mark Casstevens [gt], Steve Gibson [gt], Mel Brown [gt], Doyle Graham [steel], Kyle Lehning [bass], Larry Londin/Kenny Malone/Charles Polk [drums], Buddy Spicher [fiddle], Ted Reynolds [piano], Warren Hartman/Shane Keister [keyboards] + strings + vocal chorus. Producer: Ron Haffkins)
IF NOT YOU 4364/ST-11522

- Dave

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 6 Jun 2022 10:11 pm

Maybe Doyle Grisham?

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 6 Jun 2022 10:47 pm

Definitely not Lloyd as was suggested. In fact Lloyd was playing in the UK at the same time that If Not You was in the charts here. He was very complimentary about the solo on the track when he was asked about the use of pedal steel on pop and rock recordings.

Wayne Brown · Post by **Wayne Brown** » 7 Jun 2022 2:52 am

Yes it sounds like pedal steel to me as well for sure. However the time line is off from when Chris left the band and the album's release. Also it would make sense using a session player in the studio. Plus all the old videos back then are probably lip synced, at least the ones I saw in my research. There is no way on Gods green earth that a 335 sounds exactly like a pedal steel. LOL To me this lead break is right up there with some of the others. If you listen to the original track from the album, the smoothness, and the suttle tonal changes are astounding. So the search continues...
thanks
wayne

Roy Heap · Post by **Roy Heap** » 7 Jun 2022 4:53 am

I am sure that it was Doyle Grisham like Ken Says as he did play with the Glazer brothers.

Michael Stover · Post by **Michael Stover** » 7 Jun 2022 6:11 am

Looks like the mystery is solved, but this video is bonkers and I will take any opportunity to share it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPP1xkgjnA8

Wayne Brown · Post by **Wayne Brown** » 7 Jun 2022 7:40 am

I'm sorry but i disagree the mystery is not solved in my opinion. On the song "if not you" is defiantly a pedal steel not a NON pedal, I am still heavily leaning toward a session player that was in Nashville at the time because that lead break in everything i have seen live and on tape has been in some way fudged or altered.
PS: I have found other discussions about this very topic and it sure seams to be a very guarded secret or no one knows, remembers or cares to remember LOL

thanks
wayne

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 7 Jun 2022 8:32 am

Dave Magram wrote:According to PragueFrank:

November 1975 [no 21244] Glaser Sound Studio, 916 9th Ave. South, Nashville, TN – Dr. Hook (Dennis Loccorere [vcl], Mark Casstevens [gt], Steve Gibson [gt], Mel Brown [gt], Doyle Graham [steel], Kyle Lehning [bass], Larry Londin/Kenny Malone/Charles Polk [drums], Buddy Spicher [fiddle], Ted Reynolds [piano], Warren Hartman/Shane Keister [keyboards] + strings + vocal chorus. Producer: Ron Haffkins)
IF NOT YOU 4364/ST-11522

- Dave

I think Dave has it nailed, and I strongly suspect that "Doyle Graham" is indeed Doyle Grisham on pedal steel. PragueFrank really does the research on all kinds of obscure stuff, but I think it would be forgivable to make a typo.

You can also see that Doyle's discography page reports that he played with Dr. Hook - https://www.discogs.com/artist/733808-Doyle-Grisham

Doyle is a great pedal steel player, having played with Jimmy Buffet for decades, and also played on lots of Randy Travis' songs, and lots of others. He is a consummately tasteful player.

Wayne Brown · Post by **Wayne Brown** » 7 Jun 2022 9:06 am

so i guess the mystery is solved...anyway to contact him I sure would like the tab for that lick or i'll just have to do it the old fashion way (break it up and learn it piece by piece) i have the 1st part down just need the 2nd part after he climbs passed the 12th fret ...anyways thanks for all your help folks
wayne

Jerry Van Hoose · Post by **Jerry Van Hoose** » 7 Jun 2022 9:37 am

Yes, thats correct, it was Doyle. I spoke with Jim Glaser’s son, Jeff and he said that Doyle was doing most of the sessions during that time in their studio, including that one.

Wayne Brown · Post by **Wayne Brown** » 7 Jun 2022 10:08 am

Thanks Jerry
wayne

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 7 Jun 2022 10:41 am

https://www.feenotes.com/database/artis ... 2-present/

Wayne Brown · Post by **Wayne Brown** » 7 Jun 2022 11:00 am

Thanks Dave that was a cool audio...also i found out in that pick he was playing a Emmons
thanks
wayne

Wayne Brown · Post by **Wayne Brown** » 11 Jun 2022 11:52 am

Well Dave Magram Hit the nail on the head. It was Doyle Grisham that did the steel work on the song "if not you". I am very happy to say that i have received a PM from Doyle Grisham himself explaining about that steel guitar track on that album. So with his permission i will post his PM here.

" Wayne,

I am sending you a PM because you seemed to be very interested in the steel playing on Dr. Hook's song, "If Not You".

Yes, I played on that cut. It was intended, I think, to just be an album cut, which is why there wasn't much concern about so much steel being on it. In fact, when they decided to release it as a single, most of the rock stations wouldn't play it because of the long steel solo. The producer was kind enough to call and tell me that, himself. He said that he had to pull the steel solo on it and overdub a rock guitar solo for the single, but that he was going to leave it as is for the album cut and, as you can hear, he did just that.

I, in fact, played on many more cuts for Dr. Hook, but this is the only one that I recall being released. I had been told that there are some digital releases of those old cuts with my steel on them, but I haven't found them yet.

I did do a complete album for Ray Sawyer of Dr. Hook fame, called simply "Ray Sawyer" and have done some overdubs for Dennis Locorrier since then on a couple of his songs.

Wayne, thanks so much for your concern about this song. I think that the thread ended up with what I have told you here, but I wanted you to know for sure that it was me.

As I assume you are a steel player, good luck with all that you do."

Doyle

I wish to thanks Doyle for taking the time to answer myself
Wayne

Larry Dering · Post by **Larry Dering** » 11 Jun 2022 1:55 pm

Wayne, that's a terrific story and bless Doyle for reaching out and setting it straight. You gotta love the steel players for taking time to answer.

Frank Freniere · Post by **Frank Freniere** » 11 Jun 2022 3:04 pm

Speaking of Doyle Grisham …

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtop ... ht=grisham

Craig Stock · Post by **Craig Stock** » 12 Jun 2022 11:12 am

I still consider Doyle's playing on the early Jimmy Buffett records as the sound that first peaked my interest in steel guitar, my favorite song from that era was 'Livingstons gone to Texas', doesnt get any better than that!

Peter Dollard · Post by **Peter Dollard** » 18 Jun 2022 8:15 pm

This is just a funny story.I was playing with a group called Tom Mcnally and the Sentrys in 1975 at El Rancho Tropicana Santa Rosa. It was a kind of milquetoast middle of the road band where I played both lead AND steel. Unfortunately the leader thought my stage presence was less than lively so he fired me. His name for me was "smiling Pete". He hired the guy from Dr hook George who played both slide guitar and regular guitar. So I get back with Tom a few years later for a job and he says "That guy smiled less than you did"

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