Using a D12 as a D10?

Rick McMullen · Post by **Rick McMullen** » 22 Feb 2022 8:08 pm

Hey guys:
Anyone use a D12 as a D10?
There's an opportunity to get a pretty decent old MSA D12, want to upgrade from my Carter Starter. Can I just take the lower 2 strings off and play normally? Is the 12 string too much for a 1 year noob?
Thanks

Lee Gauthier · Post by **Lee Gauthier** » 22 Feb 2022 10:34 pm

I saw that one the other day. If I didn't already have plans in the works for a different guitar I'd strongly consider it! I've heard of people leaving two strings off 12ers, but I think if the top neck is set up as an extended E9 it's really just 2 extra bass notes E and G#, pretty much the same as the middle strings but lower so I'd just leave them on personally.

Don't know what do people normally do for extended C6 tunings. Also, I bet that thing is heaavy

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 22 Feb 2022 11:03 pm

Heavy as hell and way too much money. 12s are a hard sell. Old MSAs are a hard sell. And ad aside, that thing ain’t no Legend.

Lee Gauthier · Post by **Lee Gauthier** » 22 Feb 2022 11:28 pm

What specifically about old MSAs make them a hard sell or undesirable? I'm not super up on the history of what years of MSA people like. One thing to remember is that guitar is about 30% cheaper than listed if you are thinking in USD and I bet there is room to haggle. What would be a reasonable price in USD for a 70s MSA like that? I think that guitar would be too heavy for me personally, but options are pretty limited around here so it might help someone make a good offer if they see this.

I'm a bit jealous because even if it isn't an ideal guitar, if something similar went up for sale when I used to live in Vancouver I likely would have started playing steel 5 years sooner than I did.

Scott Denniston · Post by **Scott Denniston** » 23 Feb 2022 5:07 am

Probably the reason they don't sell so easy is most players are used to a D10 and are a little mystified by a D12. I've been playing a D12 for the last year and am hooked. It gets some cool stuff that's new to me and opens some doors. For me it's well worth a little extra weight and I'm becoming an elderly gentleman. I've discovered that this occurs with the passage of time.
Rick it's not "too much" for a noob any more than a 10 string. You don't have to use those two bottom strings for a while if you want but I'd keep them on maybe just for the sake of being oriented. It has (is) taken me a while to get used to after years of playing a ten string.

Chris Brooks · Post by **Chris Brooks** » 23 Feb 2022 6:00 am

Keep it a 12 string! Just don't try to move it around. My D 12 with 10 and 4 was 93 lbs. in the case.

Great axe though.

Scott Denniston · Post by **Scott Denniston** » 23 Feb 2022 6:06 am

If you put your pedal bar, legs, and rods in a soft rifle bag and the steel body in it's own separate case (either soft padded or fitted wood) you won't notice any weight difference.

Jeremy Threlfall · Post by **Jeremy Threlfall** » 25 Feb 2022 11:39 am

to actually answer your question, there is no problem taking those bottom two strings off, if you want to do that. Me, personally, I'd take just one off and keep a low G# on the 11th

Andrew Goulet · Post by **Andrew Goulet** » 25 Feb 2022 7:24 pm

I have an S12 and don't feel like I NEED a D12, but if I had the money, the price was right, and options were limited, I'd consider it long and hard, even as a newer player. But I'm an odd duck and don't know much about MSA's.

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 25 Feb 2022 8:45 pm

I would leave all 12 strings on the guitar. The extended E9th gives you a lower octave of B-G#-E strings. It can be used more than you realize, You can use S10 E9th lessons and tab on the front 10 strings.

If you listen to George Jones' "He Stopped Loving Her Today". The low octave E-G#-B is as close as you can get to the original first part of the song.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 25 Feb 2022 9:41 pm

The top 10 strings of a 12-string in Extended E9 tuning is exactly the same as a 10-string E9 guitar. So no - there is no reason whatsoever to fear a 12-string neck or even to take the bottom two strings off. If you're not already used to just having 10 strings, I don't see why it would be any additional challenge to have the low G# and E on strings 11 and 12, respectively. As Bobby states, they can come in mighty handy at times.

An old MSA is a good guitar. As stated earlier, heavy as hell - probably pushing 100 pounds in the case - but very solid. I had a real nice '74 MSA Classic D10, but I found even that weight too much. I think weight is one of the reasons they tend to bring less money. Probably also the plywood body on some of them from the mid-70s. They do not have the 'cachet' of an old Emmons or Sho Bud.

How much is this one? Old MSAs turn up here pretty reasonable from time to time - by reasonable, I mean less than a couple of grand. Sometimes quite a bit less. So I would probably advise against spending much more than that on one of these. And then answer the question 'How strong is your back?"