Playing on stage with no amps

Kenny Davis · Post by **Kenny Davis** » 22 Jan 2022 5:12 pm

Dick - Me raising my volume when someone complains is usually when I play with another band that plays without ears or a soundman. Usually an Elks or Legion Hall. Recently a woman said it was too loud and couldn't visit with the person she was with. I'm thinking people come for the music and dance! The act of getting up and moving a knob almost always satisfies the problem...even when the knob moves clockwise! It's funny when you ask them on break if the volume was better and they reply "Yes, thank you for turning it down!"

I tell a soundman to run me flat, no effects, and here's my maximum volume. Once he has that info, I tell him DO NOT TOUCH MY LEVEL...I know when I need to be in the mix and will use my volume pedal accordingly. If vocals and other instruments are set correctly, then we should all be happy. If he says I'm too loud, he wasn't following instructions!
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Johnny Cox · Post by **Johnny Cox** » 23 Jan 2022 6:35 pm

I've done it when I worked with The Baldknobbers in Branson. I liked having more control of what I heard in my ears but missed the air movement from an amp. The thing I dislike the most is giving so much control of my sound to a sound person. Steel, and everything else always ends up about 10 dB below the kick drum and they always mess the tone up. Just my experience.

Johnny Cox · Post by **Johnny Cox** » 23 Jan 2022 6:37 pm

Kenny Davis wrote:Dick - Me raising my volume when someone complains is usually when I play with another band that plays without ears or a soundman. Usually an Elks or Legion Hall. Recently a woman said it was too loud and couldn't visit with the person she was with. I'm thinking people come for the music and dance! The act of getting up and moving a knob almost always satisfies the problem...even when the knob moves clockwise! It's funny when you ask them on break if the volume was better and they reply "Yes, thank you for turning it down!"

I tell a soundman to run me flat, no effects, and here's my maximum volume. Once he has that info, I tell him DO NOT TOUCH MY LEVEL...I know when I need to be in the mix and will use my volume pedal accordingly. If vocals and other instruments are set correctly, then we should all be happy. If he says I'm too loud, he wasn't following instructions!
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That's what I tell them too but sound guys just can't leave it alone.

Kenny Davis · Post by **Kenny Davis** » 24 Jan 2022 9:00 am

I hear you Johnny...

Our last soundman is a great musician and loves Steel Guitar. He also figured out how to get my Resonator heard without feedback. Finding someone like that, and who knows the band's material is rare!

Karl Paulsen · Post by **Karl Paulsen** » 24 Jan 2022 9:17 am

Never played steel without amps but I played bass at a church for a number of years that tried this. Never was happy with the IEM situation when they went amp-less. The Soundguy was very accommodating, but having to keep asking the soundguy to adjust our mixes got old, especially when some musicians would then adjust their own volume and mess everything up. Turned me off to ampless gigs for years.

This was before the age of self-adjusted-mixes via phone/tablet however, and now I'm rather intrigued by the idea of an ampless stage if I can control my own mix. I'm skeptical, but I'd give it a shot.

I do prefer a lower stage volume in general though. Judging by the comments here I may be stepping on some toes, but I'm really not a fan of guitarists of any kind (steel, electric, bass, etc) who feel the need to crank their amps on stage. There's almost no reason for stage volume so loud that the rest of the band will damage their hearing.

This goes double for guys who are also extra-cranking their high-mids because their gig-degraded ears don't hear those frequencies as well anymore. I hear it so often in bars where guys who are getting up in years have harsh brittle tone that one can only assume must sounds good in their own head. Maybe they have full range hearing and they want to sound like that, but the evidence points elsewhere.

Rich Upright · Post by **Rich Upright** » 24 Jan 2022 10:40 am

I wouldn't take that gig. Been tone chasing for years, and I need MY tone to sound my best, and it ain't coming from a mixing board or a (more than likely) ROCK sound engineer.

"but I'm really not a fan of guitarists of any kind (steel, electric, bass, etc) who feel the need to crank their amps on stage."

The problem is because most guitarists are "over-amped". A guitar amp does not start to sound good until it gets loud enough to take advantage of the gain compression. Even my little Classic 30 is too loud for most of our stages; been looking for something even smaller so I can run it higher.

Karl Paulsen · Post by **Karl Paulsen** » 24 Jan 2022 11:02 am

Rich Upright wrote:
The problem is because most guitarists are "over-amped". A guitar amp does not start to sound good until it gets loud enough to take advantage of the gain compression. Even my little Classic 30 is too loud for most of our stages; been looking for something even smaller so I can run it higher.

I agree in many cases. However, I do see a surprising number of guys cracking it way too much even on smaller easily-tamed SS amps. I think those guys are just "Over volume-ed".

Marc Muller · Post by **Marc Muller** » 25 Jan 2022 5:45 am

Kenny Davis wrote:If you decide to use inner ear monitors, be sure to use both and not just one! I see a lot of people that will drop one and keep one in their ear. Could be harmful over the long term.

https://empireears.com/blogs/news/why-y ... ar-monitor

THIS! Did it once many years ago, big loud arena in the round. Lost hearing in the ear for a day, came back, but within a year developed screaming tinnitus in that ear. I truly believe had I not done that at that one show I wouldn't be like this today. This living and learning is killing me.

David Mitchell · Post by **David Mitchell** » 27 Jan 2022 7:40 pm

I use to play a large club in Dallas called the Old Top Rail and they insisted no amps on stage because they would have multiple bands play during the night and it all went well however me and the guitar player brought our own preamps that had tone and effects built in so we just plugged those right into floor jacks on stage. The monitors were even mounted under the stage with vents in the floor. We got their an hour early for a sound check so when it came our time to take the stage the setup time was less than 10 minutes. It was done in the 15 minute usual band break. Everyone could hear each other better than when we used our own equipment but they had a professional sound engineer doing it. They usually got recording engineers to moonlight doing the sound.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 29 Jan 2022 3:03 am

Has anyone mentioned EAR FATIGUE ? For certain amps can cause the same issue but we can escape it by moving our head slightly, but we can't remove ear pieces.

Karl Paulsen · Post by **Karl Paulsen** » 29 Jan 2022 5:23 am

Tony Prior wrote:Has anyone mentioned EAR FATIGUE ? For certain amps can cause the same issue but we can escape it by moving our head slightly, but we can't remove ear pieces.

Ear fatigue is a grey area medically.

That said, I assume you can fix that by turning your in ear monitors down. Hard to see where in ear monitors would be harder on your ears than a loud stage.

Roger Rettig · Post by **Roger Rettig** » 29 Jan 2022 5:56 am

I played on a UK Charley Pride tour (thirty-plus years ago) and was surprised to encounter my first 'ampless' stage.

We used Rockman amps (tiny solid-state amps worn around the waist) that fed to the front-of-house PA. It was difficult at first - I, too, miss the way an amplifier 'moves air' - but the pay-off came in the form of a tightly-controlled mix with everything clearly audible and in its own space.

It's a discipline, like so many things are. Charley's steel-player, by the way, was Joe Wright and I recall being intrigued by his pick-blocking, not to mention being blown away by his ability. A fine musician indeed.

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 31 Jan 2022 8:34 am

Ok, this weekend was NOT GOOD. During sound check everything sounded great but once we started the first set, everything came undone. It was like the soundman just started messing with the mix or something.The band had a parking lot meeting with the soundman to try and figure out what was going on.He did manage to straighten most things out by the last set.

Marc Muller · Post by **Marc Muller** » 1 Feb 2022 5:59 am

Dick Wood wrote:Ok, this weekend was NOT GOOD. During sound check everything sounded great but once we started the first set, everything came undone. It was like the soundman just started nessing with the mix or something.The band had a parking lot meeting with the soundman to try and figure out what was going on.HE did manage to starighten most things out by the last set.

50 years of gigging I've found it's always best when you have a terrible soundcheck. Gig goes great. Time after time, if soundcheck goes smoothly the gig sucks! Not sure what force of nature made that rule.

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 1 Feb 2022 7:29 am

Very true Marc. I'm trying my best to accept the no amp idea but unless things proceed in a more trouble free consistant way then I may have to go another direction. Nothing worse than things going bad at a gig.

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 3 Feb 2022 10:02 am

My view is that the vast majority of sound crew are rock and rollers. I was in the O2 venue in London to see my friend Mike Johnson playing with Reba McEntire. The kick drum or bass drum as we call it in the UK, was way louder than any instrument or even Reba's vocals. It was so loud that my ribs were assaulted with the air movement, as I was sitting in front of the bass bins.

Chatting with Mike after the show, I told him that the bass drum was deafening, and he just shrugged his shoulders and said "Rock and rollers!" We both laughed. No good fighting it. The best balance I've heard from a country band is Mike Johnson's 45RPM. Their balance is immaculate, and a pleasure for the audience to sit and listen to.

Brad Issendorf · Post by **Brad Issendorf** » 6 Feb 2022 4:36 pm

Played another ampless job as a duo again last night. Its nice I can join at places that only usually book singles. Especially playing pedal steel which had never been to most places we play. While I also prefer an amp behind me, I do not believe what we hear point blank from an amp on stage is anywhere near what the audience hears anyways; especially at the back of the room. It took a while to get used to but in the last 3 years or so, 90% of the jobs I get hired for are ampless. Less stuff to haul in. The pay is good and the tips are fantastic.

Dick Wood · Post by **Dick Wood** » 7 Feb 2022 6:41 am

Brad, less stuff to haul in is what it's all about. At almost 67 I feel gravity is increasing more than global warming.

I am really liking the tonal quality of my steel using IEM's. I can hear every little nuance and have better control of the balance with the other players. Most bands I work with don't have the PA to handle no amps so on some gigs I'll drag the ole amp in. Load in/out is faster when going ampless. It used to take us almost an hour to load out but it's down to 35 minutes now. You just adjust to different situations, take the hand full of money and go home.