Faking Pedal Steel on My String-master 8

James McGann II · Post by **James McGann II** » 30 May 2002 9:20 am

Hey Folks!!
I Know I have asked you this question
before but will you help me I have what I
think is an unusual question, at least
everyone I ask just looks at me blank
or hits me with the applied science of
Lap-Steel. Sound interesting? Here goes!
I have a Fender-Stringmaster 8 string, I
use it only to do a mix of slide & fake pedal
steel. I want to use open E tuning low to high
8-E, 7-B, 6-E, 5-G#, 4-B, 3-E what do I use for
my 2-? and 1-? string, tuning & gauge.I have
been through E-7, C-6 & C-13 I can't get the
universal slide & fake pedal steel sound and
or the tunning I am comfortable with on my
Resonator. Please help me out I am just a
simple picker in a Classis Country & Truckabilly(Dave Dudley, Dale Watson, Bill
Kirchen, Red Simpson, Merle Haggerd, C.W. MacCall, Jerry Reed, ect....)
bar band from the Connecticut Shoreline.
Thank You for your time & help!!!
Yours in the sweet sound of steel!!
Jamie McGann

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 30 May 2002 9:52 am

I'll give you my best try.
The highest practical pitch is G with a .010 or .011 gauge string. You could surely ease it up to G#. Forget getting a B or High E on top. It will be too thin a sound.

You don't have use all 8 strings!

Try this:

E .012
C# .017
B .018
G# .026w
F# .032w
D .038w
G# .056w
E .062w

It is E13. Credit goes to Cindy Cashdollar for this tuning.
It sounds great. Don't have to play all the strings at once. When you do, take it easy on the audience, you will blow em away.

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Fender Stringmaster T-8
PV N400[This message was edited by Ron Randall on 30 May 2002 at 11:08 AM.]

Paul Graupp · Post by **Paul Graupp** » 30 May 2002 10:01 am

I'd suggest you look up some of the threads on Jerry Byrd's Diatonic tuning. He played more pedal sounds without pedals than I do with pedals. That's where it's at.

Regards, Paul

John Kavanagh · Post by **John Kavanagh** » 30 May 2002 10:11 am

I'd use a c# between your 3rd and 4th, and a g# on top. That gives you the same as C6 on the top strings, but the bass strings are still there. You could tune or bend the c# up to a d for bluesier stuff, or you could put that string up on top (or even on the bottom)to keep your open E as you're used to it.

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 30 May 2002 11:29 am

There might be some info of interest on Buddy Emmons´ website ( www.buddyemmons.com ). You´ll have to look it up yourself. As I seem to remember Buddy was trying to emulate the "new/early" E9th sound generated by Bud Isaacs on his pedal Bigsby on a non-pedal until he´d get his Bigsby... (2 or 3 year waiting period!!) AND it sounds truly like it... but then, that´s just BE

. But there´s also a special tuning that he came up with for that.

... J-D.

billchav · Post by **billchav** » 30 May 2002 7:30 pm

Billy Robinson has been imitating the pedal sound for the last 40/50 years by pulling the strings,slants,etc. One of the best at that style of playing. www.billchaviers.com [This message was edited by billchav on 30 May 2002 at 08:32 PM.]

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 30 May 2002 8:27 pm

James,

C# and D would round out your tuning nicely. Adding those two notes will turn your E tuning into E13. And it will give you a 3 note minor chord (C#m open and C#m7 open).

There are many ways to set it up. Here's my 8 string version:
<pre>
E13

1 E .014
2 C# .017
3 B .018P
4 G# .024W
5 E .030
6 D .034
7 B .038
8 E .056
</pre>

E, G#, B = E major

E, G#, B, D = E7

E, G#, B, D, C# = E13

C#, E, G# = C#m

C#, E, G#, B = C#m7

If you want pedal steel sounds why not go with strings 1 through 8 of the standard E9 PSG tuning?

<pre>
Eadd9

1 F# .013
2 D# .015
3 G# .011
4 E .014
5 B .018P
6 G# .024W
7 F# .026
8 E .030
</pre>

BTW... I play on the CT shore about once a month. At Boomers in Groten CT.

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My Site | Doug's Free Tab
[This message was edited by Doug Beaumier on 30 May 2002 at 10:15 PM.]

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 31 May 2002 3:17 am

Perhaps this could be of use to you ...
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum8/HTML/001097.html

mikey · Post by **mikey** » 31 May 2002 2:47 pm

James...It sounds like you need a single 10 E9 Pedal Steel...3 pedals...3 or 4 knee levers....I've seen Sho-Buds on Ebay for @ 800(or on buy and sell here) Pro 1's are nice...
Mike
(otherwise...faking it is just slanting the bar forward and straight and back and vice a versa)PS, on short scale you can get a .013 to G#....I have!!!![This message was edited by mikey on 31 May 2002 at 03:51 PM.]

Jerry Horner · Post by **Jerry Horner** » 2 Jun 2002 8:51 am

Ron.

That tuning was around a long time before Cindy Cashdollar was.

Jerry

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 2 Jun 2002 10:09 am

I believe that inversion of E13th was first used by Leon McAuliffe who developed it with advice from Eldon Shamblin who was well versed in music theory - all self-taught on the road.

Todd Weger · Post by **Todd Weger** » 2 Jun 2002 10:47 am

Ron -- I like that tuning alot, too.

E .012
C# .017
B .018
G# .026w
F# .032w
D .038w
G# .056w
E .062w

I like to use a 14 or 15 for that high E though, because it just sounds too thin to me otherwise. Depends on the scale, too, of course.

One other cool thing is with that wound G#, you can grab it with your bar had middle finger, and pull it back to get that suspension. With practice and using ears, muscle memory will develop, allowing you to learn to "nail" it on the fly. Bending the C# up a 1/2 step to the dominant 7th can be cool, too.

TJW

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Todd James Weger/RD/RTD
1956 Fender Stringmaster T-8 (Amaj9, E13, C6) or 1960 Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6) through an old Super Reverb or Deluxe; Melobar SLS lapsteel (open D); Chandler RH-4 Koa semi-hollow lapsteel (open G)

Rick Aiello · Post by **Rick Aiello** » 2 Jun 2002 1:12 pm

On that E13/9 tunin' ... how do y'all tune the F# and the C# ?

The biggest limitation to tunin' via Just Intonation is you can't have a chord "Beatless" with the second(F#), fifth (B), and the sixth (C#) present.

Since this is an E tuning:

If the F# is tuned to the B (which is already 2 cents sharp of ET) it would end up 4 cents SHARP of its ET value (since F# is the fifth of B).

This would make the F# "correct" in its agreement with the tonic E harmonic series.

If the F# is tuned to the C# (which is already 16 cents flat of ET) it would end up 18 cents flat of its ET value (since F# is the fourth of C#).

Not tryin' to be difficult ... just curious ... I know some pretty famous Hawaiian players used this tunin' and I always wondered how they got around this dilemma.

Do ya avoid the full strum as Ron pointed out ... or do you tune it all ET??
[This message was edited by Rick Aiello on 02 June 2002 at 02:21 PM.]

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 2 Jun 2002 10:26 pm

Jerry Horner:

I have read your comment several times over, and, I just don't know what you are trying to say.

I was giving credit to the person who showed me the tuning.

If you know the origins and background of the tuning, then inform us, enlightn us.

Thanks, Andy, for keeping the thread moving in a positive direction.

Jerry Horner · Post by **Jerry Horner** » 3 Jun 2002 12:57 am

Ron,
No offence intended. I do not know when the tuning was first used. I do know that Leon was using it in 1954. Andy may very well be right because Eldon was well versed and taught music at Rogers College in Arkansas for years after he got off the road.

Jerry

Ron Randall · Post by **Ron Randall** » 3 Jun 2002 11:25 am

Hey,
No problem. I listen to this music all the time, and have great respect for the folks that figured out how to make great music on a non-pedal guitar. I have a large collection of the stuff recorded long ago, and try to play along.

I am learning every day, but I was in first grade in 1954.

Ron

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 4 Jun 2002 1:13 am

The only way to get the extensions in tune on a 13th non-pedal tuning is to tune everything straight up(even tempered). It's actually pretty easy to live with a few beats cause it averages out real nice.Now if I could just live with ET on my pedal steel....... -MJ-

Bobby Lee · Post by **Bobby Lee** » 4 Jun 2002 12:06 pm

James,

I'd tune the second string to G# (.011) and the first to F# (.013). You'd get a lot of the E9th pedal sound with the addition of those two strings. Here's a couple of licks in E:
<pre>
F# __________________________7_____________
G# ____8---_____7--8___8--7________________
E ____\__/________\____________7__________
B ____9--7_____7--9____________\__________
G# __________8__________________8__________
...
</pre>There are a lot more if you have a C# between the E and the B, but I get the impression that you've already decided against that.

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<img align=right src="http://b0b.com/b0b.gif" width="64" height="64">Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session 12 (E9), Williams 400X (Emaj9, D6), Sierra Olympic 12 (F Diatonic) Sierra Laptop 8 (D13), Fender Stringmaster (E13, A6)