keyless guitar tuning heads

Johnny Cox · Post by **Johnny Cox** » 19 Jul 2021 1:49 pm

I'm seriously considering getting myself an S12 keyless to carry in the truck with me. Let's see your keyless guitars and tell me what you like or dislike about them. Im really curious about the tuning heads and how they work.

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 19 Jul 2021 1:55 pm

It's shorter than a keyed guitar, it's light, it stays in tune very well and changing strings is super easy and fast.

Ian Rae · Post by **Ian Rae** » 19 Jul 2021 3:38 pm

This question has been asked a few times already.

I have a (non-pink) Williams and an Excel, either of which I would recommend as both makers have achieved very light instruments without compromising the sound or playability in any way.

David Ball · Post by **David Ball** » 19 Jul 2021 4:38 pm

I don't have it any more, but here is the Excel I had. Great guitar. Light weight, stayed in tune, didn't break strings. Very nice action.

Everything was a little tight under the hood--a little hard for big hands to work on, but the engineering and excecution were top notch.

I sold it because as nice as it was, it just didn't match up with my Sho Bud Permanents in tone or general feeling. It was a lot more precise, and a heck of a lot lighter, but it didn't make me feel as good as the perms. But I don't play out, so weight isn't a big consideration. And I play pretty 60's style, and am not particularly interested in getting modern, so the old perms are perfect for me.

The Excel is a splendid guitar though.

Dave

Glenn Demichele · Post by **Glenn Demichele** » 19 Jul 2021 7:06 pm

+1 on the Excel. I had a 12 E9-C6 (Greg C has it now) which was absolutely wonderful but I couldn't get used to the 12 string grips. I sold it to Greg and got a keyless Superb D10 which I also love.

Jeremy Threlfall · Post by **Jeremy Threlfall** » 19 Jul 2021 8:46 pm

ive got a U10 Anapeg (4x5) ive been playing a fair bit at home recently. it took me a while to get used to the empty space where the keyhead should be, but now i am used to it, and i actually visualise a phantom keyhead to get my perspectives right. Its a compact unit (its amazing how much difference that extra few inches makes!) and its easier to fine tune than with traditional keys.

Larry Ball · Post by **Larry Ball** » 20 Jul 2021 6:22 am

Ross Shafer · Post by **Ross Shafer** » 20 Jul 2021 8:03 am

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=316783

Johnie King · Post by **Johnie King** » 20 Jul 2021 8:23 am

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 21 Jul 2021 12:10 pm

Look at this Johnny

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=372005

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Larry Allen · Post by **Larry Allen** » 21 Jul 2021 2:26 pm

I have several Excels..great light weight, always in tune, easy string change, these S10s are 21lbs, case is 12lbsâ€¦fits in the overheadâ€¦

Jon Jaffe · Post by **Jon Jaffe** » 21 Jul 2021 6:59 pm

I have two Klines. They are working steel guitarsâ€”low or no maintenance. If you are into changing the copedant weekly, it is not for you. It is not lightweight. It does not go out of tune. In a pinch, you can wait for a break to tune it. It is easy to set up, and it is stable on the worst of stages. It is easy to change strings. I have replaced a broken string before the end of a song. They are not easy to find because people do not want to part with them.

Alternatives would be an Excel or a BMI.

Johnie King · Post by **Johnie King** » 22 Jul 2021 7:47 am

Kline steel are the cats meow!

Bill Fisher · Post by **Bill Fisher** » 22 Jul 2021 10:54 am

and ANAPEG steel is the Rolls-Royce meow.

Bill

Gabriel Edell · Post by **Gabriel Edell** » 22 Jul 2021 12:08 pm

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 22 Jul 2021 3:12 pm

[/img]

Excel U12 E13/B13 w/8+9 & Wallace TrueTone 17.5
Single wide. No dead weight padded fake necks around here.
Its case looks like a tenor sax case.
I like it.

Johnny Cox · Post by **Johnny Cox** » 28 Jul 2021 11:14 am

Can you guys give me some detailed pictures of the tuning heads and tell me how they work?

Bobby D. Jones · Post by **Bobby D. Jones** » 28 Jul 2021 1:47 pm

Here is a start. GFI S12 Keyless head.
The fingers are L shaped, There is a threaded shaft/Bolt that runs from Tuning Knob to one end of the L shaped finger. As the rod is lengthened with the knob, The end with the string attached is pulled away from the nut, There fore tightening the string. Reverse rotation of the tuning knob loosens the string.

Jeremy Threlfall · Post by **Jeremy Threlfall** » 30 Jul 2021 1:46 am

Anapeg tuners

J D Sauser · Post by **J D Sauser** » 30 Jul 2021 7:59 am

I like finger knobs.
The Excel and GFI have a good system... actually, so did the Gene Fields Fender PS210.
Sierra's (the aluminum Gen.). The thumbscrew version, was OK, but the early models the screw ate up the lever as it was not pivot ankered in it.

I hate the idea of having to hunt for a hex-tuner to touch up a tuning.

I tried to talk Bud Carter (and John Fabian) into considering to build a Carter Keyless. Bud one had a harder time to control the overtones with a keyless. He and some felt that BE's tone had become too clean when he played the Sierra Crown. I felt he sounded great and cutting thru great. I love keyless guitars. But I own a new MSA which along with my (Carl Dixon's) Excel Superb is the best sounding PSG I have ever bought. The MSA has a keyhead and the Excel is famously Keyless.
IF I would BUILD a guitar it would definitely be keyless.

... J-D.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 30 Jul 2021 9:12 am

There have been a couple posts about the Williams tuners, but here is an overhead shot showing the mechanism. I know Bill has made a few changes, one using top hat screws with a flange to lock the string.

The mechanism works with the tuner screw pulling the tuning block 180Â° to the neck. It's a bit longer unit than some others. Uses the same tuning wrench as pedals.
The keyless Williams is the most tote friendly guitar I ever owned. Compact size and lightweight but solid feel.

My favorite is the one Lamar Colvin devised for his guitars. It's a tiny unit, probably less than 2 in., and pulls the tuning block at 90Â°. Uses an allen wrench. One of those dual function wrenches that Michael Yahl sells works great. I think Lamar has closed up shop now though. Perhaps the new Sierra is similar.

Darren Mortillaro · Post by **Darren Mortillaro** » 30 Jul 2021 3:15 pm

Are keyless generally better at staying in tune? I have a knee lever on my BMI that never returns to pitch. I have to sharpen the same string with a pedal in order to bring it back in tune.

Johnie King · Post by **Johnie King** » 31 Jul 2021 5:46 am

Zane Beck an Zane King keyless steel history.

Johnie King · Post by **Johnie King** » 18 Jan 2022 8:39 am

Here's a Excel Keyless
A customer ordered with a Excel key model body with the first pedal starting the same as a key model.
This would be my choice for good ergonomics..

Johnie King · Post by **Johnie King** » 18 Jan 2022 10:47 am

Nice push pull BMI.