volume pedal that doesn't muddy up at low settings?

Christopher Peck · Post by **Christopher Peck** » 21 Nov 2021 9:08 am

I'm looking for info about various volume pedals; stuff like 'what pedal is fairly stable tone-wise across the majority of the sweep' and whether a passive or active pedal might be more appropriate for my situation.

I'm playing an older BMI S10 with a single coil PU into various older Fender piggybacks and combos, pretty much whatever I have that has an abundance of headroom... For a volume pedal I've got an old Goodrich that works well, but darkens up the tone a bunch if it's rolled back more than 90% or so. I'm finding as I get better with PSG (just picked it up this summer) that I'm tending to play with the pedal cacked back to 50%ish and just rolling up to stretch out and sustain longer notes and such.
Problem is I'm not digging the way the Goodrich darkens up the tone.

So:
active or passive?
old school pot system like an Ernie Ball?
optical rather than pot?

I'm looking for more consistent tone across the sweep of the pedal, anyone got any pointers? When playing guitar I'm pretty active with the volume knob, but have always rolled it in and out with my little finger, on my tele's I've swapped the control plate end for end and stuck the volume knob up front. I've never been a volume pedal guy and am finding I don't know much about 'em even after 45 years of playing guitar.

Marco Schouten · Post by **Marco Schouten** » 21 Nov 2021 11:28 am

If a consistent tone is a must, you have 3 options (I think): an electronic volume pedal like Hilton etc. or a pot pedal with a buffer or a pot pedal with a 3 wire hookup (if your amp allows for it)

Larry Dering · Post by **Larry Dering** » 21 Nov 2021 12:10 pm

Agreed with Marco. Use a buffer and continue with the goodrich or get a Hilton. I don't care for the 3 cable hook up but no matter, Fender and many others don't have that option. I personally use a goodrich buffer and their volume pedal on my BMI and other steels. Brad Sarno makes a great buffer.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 21 Nov 2021 1:25 pm

Your Goodrich VP should not be really muddy. Those pedals should have a 500KÎ© pot. Sometimes, they get replaced with 250KÎ© units which will make it much darker.

What happens to your tone if you bypass the pedal and go straight to the guitar? It will be a little brighter but should not be a big difference to a Goodrich VP with the 500KÎ© pot.

Another thing is your connecting cables. Some cables load down the signal for a darker tone.

By comparison, my experience is that active pedals such as the Hilton or Telonics have a more consistent tone throughout the travel.

Christopher Peck · Post by **Christopher Peck** » 21 Nov 2021 1:42 pm

Tone only gets dark when the pedal's rolled back. It's like the tone knob on an electric guitar is rolled back.
You know, it could be that I'm not dialing in the amp for PSG very efficiently as well. I've been plugging into various Fender amps I have sitting around the studio, an old Bassman, a bandmaster, and a tremolux. Right now I'm playing through an older DeVille 212.

Maybe I should be tweaking the settings towards making things sound the way I want with the pedal rolled back rather than full on?

ajm · Post by **ajm** » 21 Nov 2021 1:45 pm

Stop.

"......but darkens up the tone a bunch if it's rolled back more than 90% or so."

Is this when the output is rolled back 90%, so that the output is only 10% of full, which means that it is almost off?

Or is this rolled back to 90% of full output, which means that the volume is almost full?

Christopher Peck · Post by **Christopher Peck** » 21 Nov 2021 2:31 pm

ajm wrote:Stop.

"......but darkens up the tone a bunch if it's rolled back more than 90% or so."

Is this when the output is rolled back 90%, so that the output is only 10% of full, which means that it is almost off?

Or is this rolled back to 90% of full output, which means that the volume is almost full?

90% of full output. Poor phrasing on my part for sure there.

FWIW, it's not like falling off a cliff, it's progressive with the pedal.

I'm going to try dialing things in with the pedal at 50% or so and see how that goes. I'm a bit dubious that the pedal is the problem with so many players using them. It's more likely that it's the way I'm setting things up...

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 21 Nov 2021 3:17 pm

Always set your tone with the pedal in the position you normally play. So, if your pedal is normally half way down when playing an intro or solo, set your tone with the pedal half way down.

Benjamin Davidson · Post by **Benjamin Davidson** » 21 Nov 2021 4:04 pm

I would try a couple of things before buying a new volume pedal.

First, place any form of buffer in front of your volume pedal and see how it behaves for you. Any BOSS pedal in bypass, or Klon clone would work. If you have a Goodrich Matchbox, or Lit' Izzy those would be great options.

Lets say that doesn't work, then I'm looking inside your current Goodrich volume pedal. Check overall resistance across the outer lugs on the potentiometer. Should be over 450K, if you find you have something in the 250k range you know the wrong potentiometer was installed.

If at this point you didn't like the buffer, and the potentiometer was correct. You can try a simple treble bleed circuit across the input and output leads on the potentiometer. I've done that an a potentiometer swap on an Ernie Ball Jr. - worked pretty good.

The last thing would be looking at the Hilton or Telonics Volume Pedals and going active. Great option but its another thing to power when you play.

Michael Hill · Post by **Michael Hill** » 21 Nov 2021 6:36 pm

The common complaint is that when lowering the volume, the tone can get muddy. This can happen when you don't have a buffer and the volume pedal loads down the pickup. But this is the opposite of your complaint. I'm stumped.

Christopher Peck · Post by **Christopher Peck** » 21 Nov 2021 6:59 pm

Michael Hill wrote:The common complaint is that when lowering the volume, the tone can get muddy. This can happen when you don't have a buffer and the volume pedal loads down the pickup. But this is the opposite of your complaint. I'm stumped.

that's a fair description of what I'm hearing: When lowering the volume with the volume pedal the tone loses treble and gets muddy. I may have been overcomplicating the description of things in my o.p.

admin · Post by **b0b** » 21 Nov 2021 8:27 pm

It's a feature of pot pedals! You lower the volume when you don't want to stand out. Rolling off the highs also cuts the pick noise of your initial attack. It can be a very desirable part of the pedal effect.

I used a pot pedal for decades for that very musical reason. Active pedals don't have that feature. Of course, you can have too much of it, which happens when you use a 250k pot. The Goodrich typically uses a 500k pot. I once had an Ernie Ball pedal with a 250k pot. I replaced it.

I'm playing different music today than I was 20 years ago. Now I prefer the consistent tone of an active pedal (Telonics). That would solve your problem. My point is that it's a musical choice, not a defect.

Dave Meis · Post by **Dave Meis** » 22 Nov 2021 8:42 am

If you're using a Fender amp, try using the 'bright' switch. It's designed to do exactly that.. maintain the treble at lower volume, and does nothing at higher volumes.
Just a thought...

Nikolai Shveitser · Post by **Nikolai Shveitser** » 22 Nov 2021 2:44 pm

Since no one mentioned it, are you sure your cables connected to your pedal aren't reversed?

Christopher Peck · Post by **Christopher Peck** » 22 Nov 2021 5:36 pm

Nikolai Shveitser wrote:Since no one mentioned it, are you sure your cables connected to your pedal aren't reversed?

DOH!

After a bit of digging around I in fact did have them reversed. All the labels are loooooooong gone and I plugged 'em in while kneeling in front of the guitar. And got them backwards.

Between tweaking the amp to sound primo with the volume pedal cacked back to somewhere near 50% or so (and not defaulting to settings I use with my jazzmasters) and plugging things in the right jacks I'm digging the sound.

I figured that it was user error since so many folks use Goodrich pedals with great results. Looks like it was.

Thanks for all the input everyone.

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 22 Nov 2021 5:48 pm

Egg on my face. Nikolai to the rescue. One of the first to check and most basic things overlooked by all of us trying to help.

Joel Jackson · Post by **Joel Jackson** » 22 Nov 2021 6:21 pm

Alright Nikolai, can i be next in line?

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=375712

Charley Paul · Post by **Charley Paul** » 22 Nov 2021 8:55 pm

I have a Goodrich 120 and a Hilton. I really like both pedals, and each has a small but noticeable impact on the tone. It sounds to me like you should try a Hilton.

Nikolai Shveitser · Post by **Nikolai Shveitser** » 23 Nov 2021 4:04 pm

I only know because i've made the same mistake before!

It can be a neat effect sometimes.

Christopher Peck · Post by **Christopher Peck** » 23 Nov 2021 7:21 pm

That's why we ask questions. Someone out there has already been down that trail and point out where the rocks are...

All ya gotta do is listen to the answers

Bill Ferguson · Post by **Bill Ferguson** » 24 Nov 2021 6:19 am

First, this is NOT an advertisement.

But if you would try a set of George L's cables, you will lose much of that muddiness. It's just a proven fact.
They are labeled the "Clear Cable" for a reason.

If in doubt and you don't already use George L's, you just let me know. I will send you a set to try.
You like um, you buy um, you don't like um, you send them back. That simple.
bferguson1947@gmail.com

(and this is not a discussion about bashing cables please)

Christopher Peck · Post by **Christopher Peck** » 24 Nov 2021 6:33 am

I build my own cables.
Thanks though.

Bill Ferguson · Post by **Bill Ferguson** » 24 Nov 2021 7:06 am

I understand and completely appreciate that.

Just wanted to let you know that cables can cause the problems you are experiencing.

John Sims · Post by **John Sims** » 5 Dec 2021 10:05 am

I love George L's cables, they solved my tone problems...

Bill Ferguson wrote:First, this is NOT an advertisement.

But if you would try a set of George L's cables, you will lose much of that muddiness. It's just a proven fact.
They are labeled the "Clear Cable" for a reason.

If in doubt and you don't already use George L's, you just let me know. I will send you a set to try.
You like um, you buy um, you don't like um, you send them back. That simple.
bferguson1947@gmail.com

(and this is not a discussion about bashing cables please)

Josh Yenne · Post by **Josh Yenne** » 9 Jan 2022 1:29 am

I would say that like Bob and others said this is a feature not a problem. When I was very early starting out someone told me about turning up the amplifier and keeping the volume pedal back. I tend to tell my students do not think of it as a volume pedal think of it as a sustain pedal. So my question would be why do you not just EQ your amplifier to be breaker and turn it up. So then you were living in the part of the volume pedal from 1/2 of it to heal all the way down? If I play a three hour show I never get remotely close to over half of the volume pedal. So I don’t get to the high end up the volume pedal where the high end starts coming back. Not to mention I play single coils. So. Another consideration of hmmm