Knee lever flags

[Ken Mizell]

FYI Regarding GFI knee lever flags- You have to take the flags off to fold the knee levers all the way down. It’s not hard to take them off, and it doesn’t take long. They are very good flags, and well built from extrusion. Slide them on, and tighten two hex head set screws.

[John Wilson]

Hey all,
This is a simple idea I've had for a while for adding an adjustable "flag" extension to my knee lever.
Please pardon my crude drawing; this was thrown together in about 5 mins.

The basic idea is to add a second lever piece (1/2 length) that is slotted down the middle. Loosening the wingnut allows you to position and tighten the extension piece.
Counter sunk screw is flat where the knee hits the lever. A washer underneath the wingnut might make the loose-tight action smoother.
The biggest obstacle would be slotting the 1/2 piece.

Thoughts?

John

[John Wilson]

Hello again all,

My mind has been working overtime on a simple design for KL flags, so I came up with another prototype.

I cobbled this together without a metal chop saw and drill press; all cut by hand. Any half-decent shopsman could do much better with better tools.

Start with basic alum stock (I purchased these at Ace hardware down the road).



I simply cut 2 pieces and bonded using super JB weld (fantastic stuff):






The unit clips on to the standard 3/4" knee lever on most makes/models. The hole is where I drilled and tapped for a set screw, but I found the grip is sufficient and didn't need it. After a few clip on/offs, you can pinch the "U" with a pair of channel locks to re-snug the fit. A small velcro dot on the inside of the "U" would hold this in place as well.







John McClung. I have the same issue with the LKL that I think you are having. When I pivot my left knee left, the radius swings out past the knee lever. This fixed that issue.

I have stock to make a few more, and I'll probably experiment a bit more as well.
I will also make the flag a bit shorter as this 5" flag is overkill for my needs.

John, If you want me to make one for you and send it, I'd be happy to do so. Just give me some dimensions and I'll give it a shot.
Best to all,

John

[John Wilson]

Hey all,

I'm still messing with prototype flags, so here's the latest.

1. I bought a nice chop saw so I can cut straight edges now.
2. The JB weld eventually gave way so I drilled and riveted the pieces together.
3. A single rivet allows me to angle the flag portion of the extension to better match ergonomic considerations.
4. a double rivet would make it stronger.
5. I'm also going to try some A/B velcro dots on either side of the rivet where the base connects to the KL.

Here's what it looks like





I've got some extra stock so if anybody would like me to cook one up custom length, I'd be happy to do it for free.
I'd just ask for a buck or two in postage to get it to you.

John

[Charley Paul]

My Mullen RP has flags on the knee levers. They are quite comfortable, a big improvement from my last guitar

[Patrick Huey]

I was just wondering what the hype was for flags on the knee levers. My right does work for both necks and is harder to work but no problems here. Thanks for all the input.

Ron
Flags also help on levers with stiff pulls, I understand. I have one on my pre RP on RKR lever. It has several E9 pulls & a C6 pull and is the only one of the seven that is a little more difficult to activate. The flag gives a little more leverage I guess

[Larry Allen]

Ebony for Black guitars… drill, thread, counter sink,

[Carl Williams]

Looks sharp Larry…nicely done! 👍

[Larry Allen]

Aloha Carl..long time no hear!! I use Stew-Mac dyes on Maple flags for colored guitars..I picked up an old upright bass fingerboard to cut the ebony ones..happy Holidaze..Larry

[Donny Hinson]

It's pretty obvious if you look at the knee levers on most all guitars that very little thought was given to that part of the guitar's design. A couple of companies even used rectangular bar stock and mounted them so that the narrow side was the side that you pressed against with your leg. In order not to make more enemies than I already have, I'll just be nice and classify that design as "kinda stupid". I've been told that most players add a flag for only two reasons. The first is that it make it easier to reach levers that are mounted away from the rear apron. Some guitars have very little room, especially on the right side, and builders mount levers in the center of the guitar (between the necks) so they don't interfere with the changer first neck changer. Again, if they were thinking better, they'd have made the body a little larger to accommodate mounting them on or near the apron. The second reason flags are used is because the levers are fairly narrow, and it can be uncomfortable to have pressure exerted on a narrow area against your leg or knee. This could be solved by making the levers slightly wider and properly radiusing the edges so they're more comfortable to use.

This stuff really isn't rocket science, but builders (and most customers) seem more impressed with shiny wood and polished metal than they are with simple good ergonomics, so that's what you get.

As to adding flags to the levers without marking or damaging them, it would be fairly easy to make flags from wood and cut a channel in them with a table saw or router so that they would be a press fit. There are also probably plastic products (mouldings or edgings) that could be sourced that would be a press fit, and do an acceptable job

[John McClung]

Amen to that, Donny, re builders give little thought to ergonomics. GFI has the best knee lever design, they're on brackets that can be screwed in almost anywhere, then connected to action crossrods and bell cranks wherever there is a nearby spot for them.

Most builders attach levers directly to a cross rod, and location is thus usually quite poor, which ails my S12 Zumsteel, both LKL staggered levers are out of reach for me.

I'm working with a new friend to come up with an effective but elegant way to fix ill-fitted lever's locations, I'll keep everyone posted on our efforts.