Pairing the steel guitar down to the bare essential

[Paul Leoni]

If you truly had to do a classic country gig with 8 strings... 4 changes....?

[Larry Jamieson]

I played for my first 20 years on an MSA Semi-Classic. It had A,B and C pedals, and one lever that lowered the Es. I got by very well, but wish I'd bought a guitar with more levers sooner than I did.

[scott murray]

I'd say the classic 3 pedals and one knee lever are most essential. some probably prefer the E>F lever to pedal C, but a lot of "essential" music was made before that change came along

[Daniel McKee]

To answer that specific question, the top 8 strings of a standard 10 E9 tuning. A and B pedals are about essential. You can get the E lever change by a bar slant for it on the low E and for the change on string 4 just grab string 2 while pushing the B pedal and for example hitting string 5 and 6. For C pedal just hit A and B pedal and pick 5 and 6 and grab string 1. Does the same thing.

[Paul Leoni]

Bearing in mind that I wish to produce a minimally confusing simple steel, that will be either a doubling instrument for guitarist, or a starter. I wish to minimize "re-learning" So...I guess if it is split between raising or lowering E's, all raise would be my best bet? Certainly solves some engineering issues.

[Daniel McKee]

Im sure my opinion wont be the popular outlook on this but in regard to that scenario Id say thats absolutely fine. Raising your E's would give you the F knee lever and as I wrote most everything else can be done by taking the alternate route. Would it confuse a beginner, if they didnt know these work arounds then maybe but that would give you basically everything just not in its usual format.

My first steel didnt have everything and getting creative taught me to think outside the box a little.

[Paul Leoni]

My "Test Bed FrankenMaverick" is now stripped down to only one knee, raising the E's. I find so far, that all truly essential bits are there without slants. Nothing so far has scared me. Probably won't be playing "Night Life" with this though (-:

[Dave Mudgett]

Given the 8-string, 4-change constraint - I think if you can make a stable, decent sounding, and very inexpensive pedal steel that doesn't drive the player crazy not going to or returning to pitch, you should be able to sell a bunch if you have the basic A+B pedals and maybe one or two levers. I'd personally go for A, B, E=>Eb, and E=>F, in that order. I personally would go E=>Eb first to get A6 tuning with just A+B down, and also the nice 7th and 9th chords with A+B+E.

If I had to pick just 8 strings, I'd probably go 2-8 and 10. Or if I wanted to appeal specifically to guitar players (who frequently play slide guitar), I might actually go 3-8, 10, and guitar low-E (i.e., E, B, E, F#, G#, B, E, G#). This gives a pretty nice A6 with A+B down, as well as the low 1-5-1 power chord that guitar players expect.

But if you have to compromise on lever choice to keep the cost down, by all means do it. I still say the biggest issue is making it stay in tune and stably go to and return from pitch.

[Paul Leoni]

I think I have a great way in mind that just about assures tuning stability. I doubt it's been tried.
I do certainly want to keep the ABC pedals the same so people could "graduate"

[J Fletcher]

If I could only have 4 changes and 8 strings , it would be the bottom 8 of the E9 tuning , with A and B pedals , and raising and lowering my E's . What I would miss most would be the top two strings .

[Ian Rae]

The idea of a simple affordable pedal steel to encourage new players is worthy, but there is a reason why these things are expensive and complicated. It was the sound of the instrument that drew me to it, and it's the playability of a decent axe that helps me persevere.

I have no experience of current student models, but I assume they are the result of careful thought and already represent the boundary of how far you can pare things down. Paul's right to question all this, mind

[Per Berner]

If I could only have 4 changes and 8 strings , it would be the bottom 8 of the E9 tuning , with A and B pedals , and raising and lowering my E's . What I would miss most would be the top two strings .

With these limitations, why not have one of the levers raise the Es to F#, with a distinct half stop at F? Then you would have the C pedal changes as well, just adding an ounce or two of weight and not many dollars in cost.

[Paul Leoni]

That might be just the thing. I am indeed learning...

If I could only have 4 changes and 8 strings , it would be the bottom 8 of the E9 tuning , with A and B pedals , and raising and lowering my E's . What I would miss most would be the top two strings .

With these limitations, why not have one of the levers raise the Es to F#, with a distinct half stop at F? Then you would have the C pedal changes as well, just adding an ounce or two of weight and not many dollars in cost.

[Dave Hopping]

There's an 800 pound gorilla sitting in the corner who does NOT want to be mentioned.....

Six-string sticker shock:
The influx of low-priced import six-strings and related gear, plus the(sometimes blatantly anti-American)counterculture mindset in which most six-string rockers were raised, sets that group up to expect very low prices for instruments, to the point that when they see the light and look into PSG, they're thoroughly disconcerted and quite unhappy with what it costs to get into even an entry-level S-10 3+4. I think it's natural for PSG builders to want to cut costs and attract buyers, hence things like the Maverick, Red Baron, Fender/Sho-Bud 3+1, and the Carter Starter.

In my own experience as a six-stringer who saw the light, then started with one of those Fender/ Sho-Bud 3+1's,that setup just wasn't enough, and fairly quickly. Even though the greats could and still can make an 8 string 3(or2) +1 get up, jump hurdles, and do their income tax return, they DO tend to take the modern gear to work.

Seems to me that until Chairman Mao's China gets into the pedal steel biz, new players here are best advised to get ready to make nice with the aforementioned 800 pound gorilla.

[Paul Leoni]

I am addressing that gorilla.

[Ian Rae]

Fender learnt there was no mass market and the Chinese will have figured the same.

[b0b]

I think this is what you're looking for:
[tab] LKL P1 P2 RKR
F#
D# -D
G# +A
E +F
B ++C#
G# +A
E +F -D#
B ++C#[/tab]

But you asked what I would use, so here:
[tab] LKL P1 P2 LKR
C# -C
F# +G
D +D#
A ++B
F# +G --E
D +D#
B
G -F#[/tab]
I think that having open G tuning available (with pedals down) is a big plus when playing bluegrass, blues, or rock in addition to country. It makes the instrument more versatile.

[Donny Hinson]

When I started back in the '60s, I played using just the ABC and the E lower for almost 8 years, and had little problem duplicating 98% of what was on the records at that time. I think that all beginners, and maybe even a few of the more advanced players, should study the old Emmons and Day stuff (like "Steel & Strings") so they can hear just how much can be played with a very simple setup. I sometimes think players nowadays get lost too much in technicalities and complexities done to impress other musicians, instead of just trying to play some good, soulful music.

[Paul Leoni]

When I started back in the '60s, I played using just the ABC and the E lower for almost 8 years, and had little problem duplicating 98% of what was on the records at that time. I think that all beginners, and maybe even a few of the more advanced players, should study the old Emmons and Day stuff (like "Steel & Strings") so they can hear just how much can be played with a very simple setup. I sometimes think players nowadays get lost too much in technicalities and complexities done to impress other musicians, instead of just trying to play some good, soulful music.

I am 100% sure not only that you are right, but too much is detrimental to the instrument in the long run. At one point in this country (usa) at least, jazz was mainstream, people had an ear for bigger chords and more interesting intervals. For better or for worse (well for worse to be honest) we are no longer that nation. Simple may not be better at all, but sadly, simple is now necessary.

[Dave Zirbel]

I sometimes think players nowadays get lost too much in technicalities and complexities done to impress other musicians, instead of just trying to play some good, soulful music. Oh Well

Agreed!

Dz

[K Maul]

I recently got a Justice S10 Jr. I use a D tuning with A+B pedals plus E-Eb on LKR. I’ve since added two Knee levers. I am trying for the whole step raise with a half stop on LKL but so far it’s problematic. I raise string nine for the dominant seventh instead of lowering 8 two times because I only have double raise/single lower in the changer. The numbers indicate half step raise or lower.

[Paul Strojan]

At a bare minimum, you don't need pedals to play country music. Pedals give more options and make things easier but people were making classic country music before pedals.

[Paul Leoni]

At a bare minimum, you don't need pedals to play country music. Pedals give more options and make things easier but people were making classic country music before pedals.

Yes very true up to a point but after Western Swing era at the beginning of the pedal steeI era, I think it's fair to say the pedal steel drove the songs themselves, seems to me the songs began to evolve based around that sound. I think that is the classic pedal steel era. The E9th pedal sound is very very distinct.

[Sam Conomo]

Very interesting.
I following along.
Sam

[Per Berner]

At a bare minimum, you don't need pedals to play country music. Pedals give more options and make things easier but people were making classic country music before pedals.

Well, Jerry Byrd certainly could sound just like he was playing a pedal steel when he wasn't, but he was a far bettter player than most. The rest of us would struggle, I think.

To my ears, non-pedal country (think early Lefty Frizell etc.) can sound a bit amateurish (as apposed to old western swing stuff that did well without the pedals).