A Vintage MSA? And How Do I Tune Those Pedals?

Alan Watt · Post by **Alan Watt** » 3 Jun 2021 9:52 pm

Hi, everybody,I'm new to the forum, and relatively new to the PSG. I've owned a Rickenbacher Bakelite lap steel for years, and just finished a 2+ year stint playing basically rockabilly with it. That not only improved my general technique on steel guitar, but got me ready to step up to the PSG.
So I recently picked up this MSA; it has no model name or serial number. From the research I've done so far, the Kluson tuners seem to tell me this is pre-"Classic" vintage; the body is clean and it doesn't appear any big "MSA" decal on the front was taken off.
It's dieboard construction, I believe, and I think that includes the neck itself.
I'm hoping someone can tell me a little more about this guitar; is it pre-70s like I think it is? It doesn't seem to have a lot of sustain on the higher strings; is that typical, and is there any opinion that changing the pickup might help? (I've read a discussion about that issue and someone said most of the sustain comes from how the strings are attached to the changer fingers).
The bridge tuners only effect the return position; they don't help tune the pedals. I'm aware of the pedal rods and pedal travel in getting pedals pull in tune, and have been able to get one string or the other in tune, using the screws on pedal cams. I've tried to adjust the other string (of the pair getting pulled) with the Allen screw stops on the pull rods, but after trying the guitar, it's not in completely in tune. Is it just hit or miss with adjusting the stops, or is there some info I'm not aware of, tuning the older ones?

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Charlie Hansen · Post by **Charlie Hansen** » 4 Jun 2021 3:22 am

I donâ€™t know if youâ€™re familiar with a pull release changer but thatâ€™s what this is. It tunes differently than the modern all pull. I would give some advice but you would be better off to search pull release tuning on the forum. Iâ€™ve had pull release guitars and once in tune they sound great and the pedals and levers stay in tune.

K Maul · Post by **K Maul** » 4 Jun 2021 4:21 am

I donâ€™t believe it is an MSA, as such. It looks like a project made from pieces of different brands or maybe a VERY early version. The pedals bar is MSA but the pedals are not. Maybe ZB? The changer is pull-release, as previously stated, and the cross bars and pullers could be from a number of brands, but not the MSAs Iâ€™ve seen(and Iâ€™ve had a couple). Knee levers arenâ€™t standard MSAs. As long as it works, who cares? However, in the interest of accuracy you should know what you really have there.

Paul Wade · Post by **Paul Wade** » 4 Jun 2021 4:56 am

https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=2855503

https://b0b.com/wp/2019/04/tuning-a-70s ... se-marlen/

p.w

J R Rose · Post by **J R Rose** » 4 Jun 2021 7:18 am

Well, I am no Pro here but have built some of the pull/release guitars. Tuning starts by pressing pedals down and tune the raise strings with the keys. Then let off pedals and tune with screws on the butt plate. Works OK. Just have to think about it. And I also do not think it is a MSA. J.R. Rose

Alan Watt · Post by **Alan Watt** » 4 Jun 2021 7:32 am

hey, everybody so far, thanks! The info about what the guitar is exactly makes some sense to me, especially if someone knows the knee levers aren't standard on early MSA's. I do wonder if it's possible, though, that this is an extremely early production, maybe before they became a national company? As I'm with you, K Maul, as long as it works. Which I hope to get it totally in that shape soon.
Big thanks to JR Rose for the tips on trying to tune it, and all who helped identified the changing mechanism as "pull release"; I'm still learning the "lay of the land" when it comes to PSG.
And oh man, are these guitars "rabbit holes" to go down into. I think I know why so many players are single (joking).
Thanks again. I knew this was a good site, because Bob is such a good guy. And so are all you.

Andrew Goulet · Post by **Andrew Goulet** » 5 Jun 2021 4:15 pm

If you get frustrated, Kelcey O'Neil on here is handy with the pull release changers. There's several very detailed threads as well. It gets tricky when you want to raise and lower the same string, but other than that it's not too hard to grasp. As mentioned, once it's set up, it'll probably stay set up for the next 50 years, as long as you keep using the same gauge strings. The tone is supposed to be exceptional on a pull release because of the mass of the fingers and how they contact the body of the steel directly. Also, a pull release changer is the only kind where you can see all the parts of the changer! I like the simple elegance of the design, even if it's outdated.

Alan Watt · Post by **Alan Watt** » 7 Jun 2021 5:34 pm

Well, I thought I'd give an update. I've got the guitar in tune, pretty much, by way of the help I got, reading the threads on the site. It sounds pretty good, though there's a general issue of sustain on the higher strings, and I can't get a completely clean tone on the high G#,no matter where I put the bar or how much I pr'65-'74)ess down.
After searching around the 'Net and finding images of my guitar, including the same color and inlay, I think it is indeed an MSA; the same body and color scheme was seen on a 1975 Sidekick. That guitar had a slightly different bridge, since it had the stop tuners in the side of the cabinet; mine is simply the screws at the end of the bridge. I really don't see any evidence of a bigger decal taken off the body, but the Klusons date it at least starting at '65 (they were used '65-'74). I believe this is very early production, since again, no inspection tag or serial number. I'm going to send photos to MSA and tell me whatever they can about the guitar; if it's something really noteworthy, I'll let you know.
I know about Reece and wish he was around to tell me something about this guitar. I liked what he said about the volume pedal; it should really be called "the expression pedal".

Chris Johnson · Post by **Chris Johnson** » 8 Jun 2021 12:29 pm

Never saw a MSA like that one. Earliest ones I ever saw were more Wright/Early Sierra-like in construction & those had serial #'s. I recognize the fretboard and pedals are pre-70's MSA.

Interested on some history.

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 15 Jun 2021 10:07 am

Looks like an early Marlin body, MSA pedalboard, knee looks like the way MSA did it, neck looks original but don't remember where I've seen one before. If it plays,and sounds OK, have at it.

Jim Pitman · Post by **Jim Pitman** » 17 Jun 2021 1:17 pm

It looks like the neck has a step in it at about the 22nd fret or so.
That's unusual.
When I was younger I drooled over MSAs as advertised in Tom Bradshaw's catalog.
However, having finally purchasing a S12 "vintage body" universal in 82, and having owned many other guitars since then, I would say they are perhaps too robust. They are mechanically stable and stay in tune, however, that era guitar lacks tone and sustain on the higher strings.
The top wood of the body is thicker than most guitars and so are the MSA wood necks. This contributes to a tone lacking overtones and killed the sustain IMO. Most of the MSAs I've heard from that era sound like a clarinet in fact. This is not say it's a bad guitar - I leaned so much in the first year on my MSA, then I plateaued for a while, then eventually got better and bought a different guitar.
Don't let me dissuade you as the pull/release is a different guitar than an all pull. The changer may affect tone more than I know.

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