Legs, Steel or Alloy?

[Dustin Schrimpsher]

I've tweaked my inexpensive steel a little here and there. I'm thinking of replacing the legs as my stabilizer feet are nonfunctional and my legs are aluminum and otherwise crappy.

Seems like the options are chrome plated alloy or steel. Should I go heavy, steel, or light, alloy?

I like the idea of a heavier, more stable instrument but will the heavier legs be prohibitively heavy?

*I'm also considering going taller which means extending pedal rods.
**I'm playing a Carter Starter and it sounds and plays pretty good.

-d

[Paddy Long]

Try this guy here http://steelguitarparts.net/

I use his lightweight airline legs when I have to fly to gigs ... they work a treat and are very solid - my Zums do not move around at all with the lightweight legs installed.

They look exactly the same as a standard leg, but weigh considerably less

[Roger Rettig]

Paddy:

Those look terrific. At $149, I'll seriously consider a set for my LeGrande.

I don't know if I simply missed it in his description, but I'd be interested in just what the weight-saving is.

[Jack Stoner]

I bought a set of the lightweight legs from the guy in Nashville. Was to be part of "lightening the load" with my Franklin but didn't like the stability and afraid attaching my Tommy Dodd POD clamp would dent it. I didn't use them, resold them.

[Bob Sykes]

Dustin wrote: "I like the idea of a heavier, more stable instrument but will the heavier legs be prohibitively heavy?"

I may be off-base here but, it seems (to me) that the OP is looking for a way to add stability to his Starter possibly via heavier legs.

If so, replacing the legs may not be the best answer. The "common" chrome plated steel tubular legs (similar to mic stand construction) are not much heavier than the C.S. (solid) aluminum legs.

The single change that would most improve stability would be to replace the (flexible light wooden) pedal bar with one like the pro model Carters have.
This would stiffen up things considerably and add more weight than swapping the legs. The added weight would be close the floor, the best place.

The biggest advantage to upgrading the legs would be getting adjustable height.

If the current lack of stability is due to other causes, like loose fit in the end-plates or pedal bar then other improvements are needed.

[Johnie King]

New steel legs an aluminum pedal board really helps the G S Emmons steels.

[Bob Hoffnar]

Upgrading the legs and pedal bar seems like a waste of time. The starter was built to be a starter. In my opinion once you get going on the Pedalsteel it might make more sense to move on to a more functional instrument. By the time you modify and replace all the things you will need to do with the starter it will cost more money than it would to buy a fully functional instrument. If you are into tinkering there are plenty of used instruments available that are capable of being rebuilt and upgraded into amazing steels. The starter is not one of them.

If you are really into fixing up your starter my apologies. Just ignore my un asked for opinion.

[Stephen Cutler]

I got solid chrome on steel legs here from someone for $80. solved the wobbly problem with aluminum legs. Now I'm trying to find my old messages here in hopes of finding the guy. Someone doing a build wants to know where I got them.

[Bobby D. Jones]

The MSA Mike Stand type legs weigh 32 Oz. (2 Lb.) each with dowel rod inserts. GFI Aluminum legs weigh 16 Oz. (1 lb.) each. Weighed on kitchen scales.

Which would make 4 lb. weight difference for the set of legs.

Yes Mr. Stoner, The GFI Aluminum Legs do not like strong clamps on them. The previous owner of 1 of my GFI's, had a Peterson Tuner with a strong clamp on it. It loosened the chrome coating on 1 of the legs. The next time I order parts from GFI I am ordering a new leg.

[Jack Stoner]

The MSA Mike Stand type legs weigh 32 Oz. (2 Lb.) each with dowel rod inserts. GFI Aluminum legs weigh 16 Oz. (1 lb.) each. Weighed on kitchen scales.

Which would make 4 lb. weight difference for the set of legs.

Yes Mr. Stoner, The GFI Aluminum Legs do not like strong clamps on them. The previous owner of 1 of my GFI's, had a Peterson Tuner with a strong clamp on it. It loosened the chrome coating on 1 of the legs. The next time I order parts from GFI I am ordering a new leg.

Go back and read my post again. The Aluminum legs were tried when I had the FRANKLIN, nothing about the GFI legs.

[Jerry Overstreet]

I'm considering those chrome over alum legs for a D10 Carter. Are they really that unstable? Of the many folks here that have converted to these, I've not heard of anyone saying they have an issue.

They're fairly priced, I guess, but I don't want to invest if they're not going to hold up under a D10.

[Dave Mudgett]

If you really wanna upgrade the Carter Starter and the issue is to give it more stability, I'd go with the heavier chromed steel legs. Chromed steel legs are not that heavy, and the CS is not a heavy guitar in the first place. One of the beefs with these guitars is that they're flimsy. I've played a few and agree. They were designed and built strictly as a starter guitar at a low price point. Have you at least stabilized the LKL? That seems to be the biggest bugaboo on these guitars. There are a number of threads that discuss this, including one recently.

If you're tall like me and want to raise the steel up, you'll definitely want to focus on what length legs you want and then will also need to either extend the pedal rods or get new rods. It's straightforward to lengthen rods on most pro-grade steels. But I don't know what is required to lengthen rods on a Carter Starter or even if you can. IMO, you should carefully investigate every little aspect of this before you plunk down your money on any of these upgrades.

I know you're not asking about this, but I basically agree with Bob H. I'd save the money for a better guitar. IMO, Carter Starters are going for too much money now - I mean, I see people getting a grand plus or minus. So if you could sell it in that ballpark and then add maybe $500 or so, you should be able to get a pretty nice guitar if you're patient. By the time you mess around with new legs and deal with lengthened or new rods, it seems to me like a better guitar would be the better investment.

[Jerry Overstreet]

I'm considering those chrome over alum legs for a D10 Carter. Are they really that unstable? Of the many folks here that have converted to these, I've not heard of anyone saying they have an issue.

They're fairly priced, I guess, but I don't want to invest if they're not going to hold up under a D10.

I'll bump this up for anyone that has input and experience to my question. Also, will gadgets with leg clamps really dent them?

Thanks for your response.
Paddy, I know you use these among others. Whaddya think?

[Bobby D. Jones]

Clamp Damage to an aluminum Steel Guitar leg. Mentioned in my previous post.

This is a picture of an Aluminum GFI leg, With clamp damage, From a tuner or electronic unit used by previous owner. It looks as if the clamp had a burr or rough spot. With the softer aluminum under the chrome the, The chrome peeled to the aluminum.

The only advantage I have found to the aluminum legs is weight. This GFI Ultra S 12 7x4 weighs 49 lb. in case. It meets the 50lb. Checked air baggage limit, Without extra charge.

[Jack Wilson]

GFI legs do not have a chrome plating. They are polished on a lathe. I know, I have done several while working there.

[Jerry Overstreet]

Still looking for some input and answers about these legs.

I'm considering those chrome over alum legs for a D10 Carter. Are they really that unstable? Of the many folks here that have converted to these, I've not heard of anyone saying they have an issue.

They're fairly priced, I guess, but I don't want to invest if they're not going to hold up under a D10.

I'll bump this up for anyone that has input and actual experience to my question with these chrome over lightweight legs. Also, will gadgets with leg clamps really dent them?

Thanks for your response.
Paddy, I know you use these among others. Whaddya think?

[Ross Shafer]

Jerry,

I do not have any personal experience comparing the stiffness of the alu legs you're speaking of and stock steel ones. But I do have some input...and think you should go for the aluminum legs.

The weak link is the leg's connection to the steel in this mechanical puzzle...I'm very doubtful you'll feel any stiffness difference between the two materials while playing due to the the attachment method.

FYI, the first proto of the new Sierra's had aluminum legs, there was virtually no difference to be felt while playing between those and the stiffer (than steel even) carbon legs I now use. My leg attachment is different and more rigid than the method used on most all other guitars.

[Bill Moore]

Jerry, I have two guitars that have the aluminum legs. A Justice Pro Lite, which came with them and a Desert Rose. The Desert Rose originally had the heavy, polished legs, like GFI uses. I replaced them with the lighter plated aluminum legs. Both guitars are very stable. I also have two more sets of these legs. I have used them at gigs with my Derby and Rittenberry guitars.

I always clamp a tuner and Digitech RP 155 to the right rear leg of my guitars. I use photographic light stand clamps for this. They don't mark up the legs at all. So, I think if you use a proper clamp there aren't any problems.

Here is a picture from a gig a few years ago.



Another pic of the clamps I just took, you can see all the dust that has accumulated in the past year and a half.

[Jerry Overstreet]

Thanks Bill. I appreciate your taking time to respond to the subject.

The clamps I use are the George L's style that just snap over the leg so I think I'll be good.

Soon as I can work it out, I'll probably be ordering some of the chromed aluminum legs for my buddy's Carter he's letting me use.

[Rick McNamara]

Hey Dustin,

How about an experiment first to find out what the guitar really needs?

In another lifetime I started on a Bud Maverick. It was a great little guitar but it liked to walk around the room with it’s thin wall aluminum legs and small size.

So, why not try adding weight to the legs of your guitar by taking the caps(feet) off of the bottom of the legs and loading in some material of your choice.

See if you get what you’re looking for? May take a couple of try’s to get what you want! Weigh the legs after and write it down.

Then if you still want to buy new/used legs for your guitar, at least you will know what you need.

IMHO
Rick McNamara

[Jerry McKinney]

I bought a set for a d10. It weighs more than a carter started. I've had no issues. That guy at steel guitar parts is great to deal with

[Jerry Overstreet]

Thanks for your experience Jerry.

Apologies to Ross. I missed your reply earlier. Appreciate the input and the weak point leg to steel connection your wrote about.

Guess I'll have to give 'em a try when feasible.

[Bill Hoskins]

I just wanted to second the recommendation for Ray at steel guitar parts, http://steelguitarparts.net/ for new legs.
He has either chrome-on-alloy or chrome-on-steel legs at a reasonable price and will custom make them to any length you need.
His service is excellent. I got a new set in one week.

[Donny Hinson]

I'd get a set of steel legs, which will add some weight and stability, and just let it go at that. As others have said, there's no sense going overboard with other upgrades unless you intend on keeping the guitar, long term.

[Fred Treece]

Jerry,

I do not have any personal experience comparing the stiffness of the alu legs you're speaking of and stock steel ones. But I do have some input...and think you should go for the aluminum legs.

The weak link is the leg's connection to the steel in this mechanical puzzle...I'm very doubtful you'll feel any stiffness difference between the two materials while playing due to the the attachment method.

FYI, the first proto of the new Sierra's had aluminum legs, there was virtually no difference to be felt while playing between those and the stiffer (than steel even) carbon legs I now use. My leg attachment is different and more rigid than the method used on most all other guitars.

Ross, do you see any way (now or ever) of retro-fitting a steel guitar with a standard threaded leg connector over to one of your design, without changing endplates? Is it even possible to fit a Sierra endplate on say, a Williams guitar?

Sorry for sidetracking the discussion...